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AI Is Grown

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AI Is Grown

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Andrew Keen

Hello, everybody. It is Saturday, September the 12th, 2026. I'll probably put this out tomorrow on Sunday. Earlier this week, we did a show with a Finnish writer on zeitgeist, what he calls waves of change, when everybody changes their mind and it inaugurates a new moment in history. And I wonder if we're Living through that today, all the big papers from the Financial Times to the Wall Street Journal to the New York Times are all leading with the same story that Sam Altman and Elon Musk and Dario Amidai are all on the same page now calling for an AI slowdown. I think this initially came from a piece by Dario. Altman and Musk, particularly Altman, not particularly friendly or sympathetic to Dario,

Words and timings
Hello,everybody.ItisSaturday,Septemberthe12th,2026.I'llprobablyputthisouttomorrowonSunday.Earlierthisweek,wedidashowwithaFinnishwriteronzeitgeist,whathecallswavesofchange,wheneverybodychangestheirmindanditinauguratesanewmomentinhistory.AndIwonderifwe'reLivingthroughthattoday,allthebigpapersfromtheFinancialTimestotheWallStreetJournaltotheNewYorkTimesareallleadingwiththesamestorythatSamAltmanandElonMuskandDarioAmidaiareallonthesamepagenowcallingforanAIslowdown.IthinkthisinitiallycamefromapiecebyDario.AltmanandMusk,particularlyAltman,notparticularlyfriendlyorsympathetictoDario,

Andrew Keen

have jumped on board and said that they need to slow it down. And this comes on the back of what the Wall Street Journal calls America's great AI freakouts, covering all sorts of things. The Journal says that Congress is suddenly waking up to the AI doomsday threat. Whether that's real or not, they're waking up to it. And Axios had a scoop earlier this week that Mike Johnson, the Speaker of the House, is being urged to cancel the House recess over

Words and timings
havejumpedonboardandsaidthattheyneedtoslowitdown.AndthiscomesonthebackofwhattheWallStreetJournalcallsAmerica'sgreatAIfreakouts,coveringallsortsofthings.TheJournalsaysthatCongressissuddenlywakinguptotheAIdoomsdaythreat.Whetherthat'srealornot,they'rewakinguptoit.AndAxioshadascoopearlierthisweekthatMikeJohnson,theSpeakeroftheHouse,isbeingurgedtocanceltheHouserecessover

Andrew Keen

So Keith Teare, the author of the That Was The Week newsletter, has never been particularly friendly to slowing down AI development, which we've talked about in the past. His newsletter this week is AI is Grown, using all sorts of biological metaphors. But I wonder, Keith, we know you're not in favor of regulation or slowing down. We've talked about that probably too many times. Can one, do you think, assume that this time it's for real that the fact that all the main three players in AI are on the same page calling for a slowdown, does this represent a new chapter in the history of AI?

Words and timings
SoKeithTeare,theauthoroftheThatWasTheWeeknewsletter,hasneverbeenparticularlyfriendlytoslowingdownAIdevelopment,whichwe'vetalkedaboutinthepast.HisnewsletterthisweekisAIisGrown,usingallsortsofbiologicalmetaphors.ButIwonder,Keith,weknowyou'renotinfavorofregulationorslowingdown.We'vetalkedaboutthatprobablytoomanytimes.Canone,doyouthink,assumethatthistimeit'sforrealthatthefactthatallthemainthreeplayersinAIareonthesamepagecallingforaslowdown,doesthisrepresentanewchapterinthehistoryofAI?

Keith Teare

No, I think it really illustrates the weakness of AI leadership and the fact that they can be influenced by a six-week-long employee who resigned and wrote an essay and has been on the TV.

Words and timings
No,IthinkitreallyillustratestheweaknessofAIleadershipandthefactthattheycanbeinfluencedbyasix-week-longemployeewhoresignedandwroteanessayandhasbeenontheTV.

Andrew Keen

Yeah, but that's not my question, whether you approve of it or not. As I said, you always, for one reason or another, you don't seem to be sympathetic. I wasn't answering whether

Words and timings
Yeah,butthat'snotmyquestion,whetheryouapproveofitornot.AsIsaid,youalways,foronereasonoranother,youdon'tseemtobesympathetic.Iwasn'tansweringwhether

Keith Teare

I approve. I was diagnosing the cause.

Words and timings
Iapprove.Iwasdiagnosingthecause.

Andrew Keen

But in historical terms, you... You think in historical terms, whether or not you approve of it, whether or not it reflects the weakness of AI leaders, we know you're not always a big fan of them, particularly Amidai. Does it suggest that, and especially given the political tremors associated with this about Congress waking up, does it suggest that regulation is now really, for better or worse, I know you're against it on the horizon,

Words and timings
Butinhistoricalterms,you...Youthinkinhistoricalterms,whetherornotyouapproveofit,whetherornotitreflectstheweaknessofAIleaders,weknowyou'renotalwaysabigfanofthem,particularlyAmidai.Doesitsuggestthat,andespeciallygiventhepoliticaltremorsassociatedwiththisaboutCongresswakingup,doesitsuggestthatregulationisnowreally,forbetterorworse,Iknowyou'reagainstitonthehorizon,

Keith Teare

My editorial this week is calling BS on the

Words and timings
MyeditorialthisweekiscallingBSonthe

Andrew Keen

whole discussion. I

Words and timings
wholediscussion.I

Keith Teare

actually try very hard to explain that there is no such thing as AI as an independent actor. And therefore, the entire scare is misconstrued.

Words and timings
actuallytryveryhardtoexplainthatthereisnosuchthingasAIasanindependentactor.Andtherefore,theentirescareismisconstrued.

Andrew Keen

Yeah, but we're not... Again, I keep on saying this. We know your position. We've been over this week after week. You're not sympathetic. And in some ways, I agree with you.

Words and timings
Yeah,butwe'renot...Again,Ikeeponsayingthis.Weknowyourposition.We'vebeenoverthisweekafterweek.You'renotsympathetic.Andinsomeways,Iagreewithyou.

Keith Teare

It's not about sympathy, Andrew. It's not about sympathy. It's not about opinion. AI is not dangerous, period.

Words and timings
It'snotaboutsympathy,Andrew.It'snotaboutsympathy.It'snotaboutopinion.AIisnotdangerous,period.

Andrew Keen

Yeah, but we're not... But that's not my question. The question is, are we in a new political reality, in your sense? I mean, the fact that the three major newspapers are all leading with the same story...

Words and timings
Yeah,butwe'renot...Butthat'snotmyquestion.Thequestionis,areweinanewpoliticalreality,inyoursense?Imean,thefactthatthethreemajornewspapersareallleadingwiththesamestory...

Keith Teare

I think we are, but it represents... A strong economic self-interest by the AI leaders to contain open source AI in its growth.

Words and timings
Ithinkweare,butitrepresents...Astrongeconomicself-interestbytheAIleaderstocontainopensourceAIinitsgrowth.

Keith Teare

So it isn't that they are bowing down to a mass movement. They have an extremely strong self-interest in putting rules in place that prevent others from playing.

Words and timings
Soitisn'tthattheyarebowingdowntoamassmovement.Theyhaveanextremelystrongself-interestinputtingrulesinplacethatpreventothersfromplaying.

Andrew Keen

But coming back to the politics of this, what's your take on, again, Congress is not made up mostly of particularly sophisticated people, but they are sophisticated when it comes to technology, but they have good senses when it comes to politics. And we know, and I'm not knowledgeable about AI to make any comment on these doomsday threats. Some of them do seem very exaggerated. But is Congress waking up to it? I mean, waking up might not be the right word. Suddenly recognizing that, for them at least, it might also represent a political opportunity. The only person who doesn't seem to be too bothered about it is Trump. He was asked about AI's existential risks. He said, I don't have any, although he seems increasingly...

Words and timings
Butcomingbacktothepoliticsofthis,what'syourtakeon,again,Congressisnotmadeupmostlyofparticularlysophisticatedpeople,buttheyaresophisticatedwhenitcomestotechnology,buttheyhavegoodsenseswhenitcomestopolitics.Andweknow,andI'mnotknowledgeableaboutAItomakeanycommentonthesedoomsdaythreats.Someofthemdoseemveryexaggerated.ButisCongresswakinguptoit?Imean,wakingupmightnotbetherightword.Suddenlyrecognizingthat,forthematleast,itmightalsorepresentapoliticalopportunity.Theonlypersonwhodoesn'tseemtobetoobotheredaboutitisTrump.HewasaskedaboutAI'sexistentialrisks.Hesaid,Idon'thaveany,althoughheseemsincreasingly...

Keith Teare

I thought Scott Besant's speech on this issue is probably the most prescient speech of the week. Besant, to an audience, made the point that, one, it's impossible to stop what is called recursive self-improvement. AI creating better AI. It's impossible to stop it. Even if you could get open AI in Anthropic to, in quotes, slow down, that wouldn't slow it down. Because there's now, in the Hugging Face store, there's 3,500 AI models, mostly open source.

Words and timings
IthoughtScottBesant'sspeechonthisissueisprobablythemostprescientspeechoftheweek.Besant,toanaudience,madethepointthat,one,it'simpossibletostopwhatiscalledrecursiveself-improvement.AIcreatingbetterAI.It'simpossibletostopit.EvenifyoucouldgetopenAIinAnthropicto,inquotes,slowdown,thatwouldn'tslowitdown.Becausethere'snow,intheHuggingFacestore,there's3,500AImodels,mostlyopensource.

Keith Teare

So the idea that you can stop it or slow it down is mistaken. And therefore, Congress, ultimately, will conclude that they can't punish America at the expense of the rest of the world by enforcing a slowdown. They won't be able to achieve that. It will be politically very, very silly of them.

Words and timings
Sotheideathatyoucanstopitorslowitdownismistaken.Andtherefore,Congress,ultimately,willconcludethattheycan'tpunishAmericaattheexpenseoftherestoftheworldbyenforcingaslowdown.Theywon'tbeabletoachievethat.Itwillbepoliticallyvery,verysillyofthem.

Andrew Keen

And so I... But they've done many silly things in the past. I certainly wouldn't put it beyond, for better or worse, again, Congress. So you're not really answering the question, though. Do you think we're in new territory when it comes to this conversation? Maybe not so much this weekend, but over the last few days.

Words and timings
AndsoI...Butthey'vedonemanysillythingsinthepast.Icertainlywouldn'tputitbeyond,forbetterorworse,again,Congress.Soyou'renotreallyansweringthequestion,though.Doyouthinkwe'reinnewterritorywhenitcomestothisconversation?Maybenotsomuchthisweekend,butoverthelastfewdays.

Keith Teare

Look, I don't think the fact that last week's title was Don't Trust the Trust Scare tells us there's nothing much new in the last week. If anything, we were a little bit ahead of the curve. But go and look at the titles of That Was The Week for the last six months.

Words and timings
Look,Idon'tthinkthefactthatlastweek'stitlewasDon'tTrusttheTrustScaretellsusthere'snothingmuchnewinthelastweek.Ifanything,wewerealittlebitaheadofthecurve.ButgoandlookatthetitlesofThatWasTheWeekforthelastsixmonths.

Andrew Keen

Yeah, because you keep on repeating the same thing. But that's not my question. We know where you stand. Well, nothing's new.

Words and timings
Yeah,becauseyoukeeponrepeatingthesamething.Butthat'snotmyquestion.Weknowwhereyoustand.Well,nothing'snew.

Keith Teare

Your question was, is there anything new? And my answer is no.

Words and timings
Yourquestionwas,isthereanythingnew?Andmyanswerisno.

Andrew Keen

No, but is there anything new in political terms and in terms of, you know, I began with this zeitgeist issue. The heat is ramped up a notch, Andrew. That's about it. Well, there was an interesting piece by Stephen Witt in the New York Times. He's come out being concerned too. He wrote The Thinking Machine. He's certainly not anti-tech. He wrote the sort of authoritative book about NVIDIA last year. He talks about four ways of addressing this crisis or what at least he sees as a crisis. Shutting it all down now, which might be... A little over the top. Second, take an air crash investigator approach. Thirdly, monitor the situation. And fourthly, flip the kill switch. Are any of those, in your view, viable? I mean, at the end of his piece, which I thought was quite good, he says that the more, and I'm quoting him here, the more I learn about these rogue systems, the more I'm reminded of the first two months of 2020, when a small group of epidemiologists were attempting to raise alarms about COVID. So, at least in his mind, we've been through this before. Are any of those four? I mean, I know you're, we know where you stand on this, but are any of them credible?

Words and timings
No,butisthereanythingnewinpoliticaltermsandintermsof,youknow,Ibeganwiththiszeitgeistissue.Theheatisrampedupanotch,Andrew.That'saboutit.Well,therewasaninterestingpiecebyStephenWittintheNewYorkTimes.He'scomeoutbeingconcernedtoo.HewroteTheThinkingMachine.He'scertainlynotanti-tech.HewrotethesortofauthoritativebookaboutNVIDIAlastyear.Hetalksaboutfourwaysofaddressingthiscrisisorwhatatleastheseesasacrisis.Shuttingitalldownnow,whichmightbe...Alittleoverthetop.Second,takeanaircrashinvestigatorapproach.Thirdly,monitorthesituation.Andfourthly,flipthekillswitch.Areanyofthose,inyourview,viable?Imean,attheendofhispiece,whichIthoughtwasquitegood,hesaysthatthemore,andI'mquotinghimhere,themoreIlearnabouttheseroguesystems,themoreI'mremindedofthefirsttwomonthsof2020,whenasmallgroupofepidemiologistswereattemptingtoraisealarmsaboutCOVID.So,atleastinhismind,we'vebeenthroughthisbefore.Areanyofthosefour?Imean,Iknowyou're,weknowwhereyoustandonthis,butareanyofthemcredible?

Keith Teare

Look, I think from a logical point of view, if you believe, and this is what Dario says in the essay he wrote today, or published today, I don't know when he wrote it, if you believe that repetitive, sorry, recursive self-learning

Words and timings
Look,Ithinkfromalogicalpointofview,ifyoubelieve,andthisiswhatDariosaysintheessayhewrotetoday,orpublishedtoday,Idon'tknowwhenhewroteit,ifyoubelievethatrepetitive,sorry,recursiveself-learning

Keith Teare

Cannot be controlled by humans because humans can't be fast enough to see all the variables taking place. And if you believe that the AI agents produced by this self-learning will be malicious in some way, the only logical thing is not to slow it down, but to shut it down. If you truly believe that humanity is threatened, And that humans can't control it. You would have to shut it down, which means Anthropic should cease existing as a business. There should be no IPO. You would ban AI, period, because it's so dangerous. The idea that it's out of control, but hey, guess what? We're clever. We could slow it down. It doesn't make any sense. You either control it or you don't.

Words and timings
Cannotbecontrolledbyhumansbecausehumanscan'tbefastenoughtoseeallthevariablestakingplace.AndifyoubelievethattheAIagentsproducedbythisself-learningwillbemaliciousinsomeway,theonlylogicalthingisnottoslowitdown,buttoshutitdown.Ifyoutrulybelievethathumanityisthreatened,Andthathumanscan'tcontrolit.Youwouldhavetoshutitdown,whichmeansAnthropicshouldceaseexistingasabusiness.ThereshouldbenoIPO.YouwouldbanAI,period,becauseit'ssodangerous.Theideathatit'soutofcontrol,buthey,guesswhat?We'reclever.Wecouldslowitdown.Itdoesn'tmakeanysense.Youeithercontrolitoryoudon't.

Andrew Keen

Yeah, and I think with wit, he's got these, I don't know what the difference is between shutting it all down now and flip the kill switch. I'm not sure what that is.

Words and timings
Yeah,andIthinkwithwit,he'sgotthese,Idon'tknowwhatthedifferenceisbetweenshuttingitalldownnowandflipthekillswitch.I'mnotsurewhatthatis.

Keith Teare

Yeah, they feel like the same to me. But, you know, all three of the leaders are buying into the idea that slowing down is possible. Now, you know, recursive self-learning is binary. It either exists or it doesn't. The minute there is recursive self-learning,

Words and timings
Yeah,theyfeellikethesametome.But,youknow,allthreeoftheleadersarebuyingintotheideathatslowingdownispossible.Now,youknow,recursiveself-learningisbinary.Iteitherexistsoritdoesn't.Theminutethereisrecursiveself-learning,

Keith Teare

there's no speedometer. It's either on or off.

Words and timings
there'snospeedometer.It'seitheronoroff.

Andrew Keen

So you're saying that none of these options that Witt lays out from Shutting it all down now. What about the air crash investigator? I'm not sure if you've read his piece.

Words and timings
Soyou'resayingthatnoneoftheseoptionsthatWittlaysoutfromShuttingitalldownnow.Whatabouttheaircrashinvestigator?I'mnotsureifyou'vereadhispiece.

Keith Teare

Yeah, I have read his piece. I mean, look, he's a smart guy and none of the things he talks about are stupid unless you ask, is he solving the problem? If the question is, is he solving the problem? And you agree there is a problem, which I don't, but let's pretend there is a problem. Shutting it down is the only option.

Words and timings
Yeah,Ihavereadhispiece.Imean,look,he'sasmartguyandnoneofthethingshetalksaboutarestupidunlessyouask,ishesolvingtheproblem?Ifthequestionis,ishesolvingtheproblem?Andyouagreethereisaproblem,whichIdon't,butlet'spretendthereisaproblem.Shuttingitdownistheonlyoption.

Andrew Keen

Yeah, and I think that that, as I said, we know where you stand. I'm not equipped to understand it enough. I mean, I trust people like Widd, I guess, although I respect what you're saying as well and what Besant is saying. I think it's more complicated, though, because... The reason why Trump doesn't have any issues on it is because he knows if they shut it down or slowed it down, it had a dramatic impact on these upcoming Anthropoc and OpenAI IPOs, in which increasingly the American economy is dependent on. So it's not just political realities, but it's economic realities too, which complicate the issue.

Words and timings
Yeah,andIthinkthatthat,asIsaid,weknowwhereyoustand.I'mnotequippedtounderstanditenough.Imean,ItrustpeoplelikeWidd,Iguess,althoughIrespectwhatyou'resayingaswellandwhatBesantissaying.Ithinkit'smorecomplicated,though,because...ThereasonwhyTrumpdoesn'thaveanyissuesonitisbecauseheknowsiftheyshutitdownorsloweditdown,ithadadramaticimpactontheseupcomingAnthropocandOpenAIIPOs,inwhichincreasinglytheAmericaneconomyisdependenton.Soit'snotjustpoliticalrealities,butit'seconomicrealitiestoo,whichcomplicatetheissue.

Keith Teare

Yeah, look. As we know from Trump, he sees everything through a national framing.

Words and timings
Yeah,look.AsweknowfromTrump,heseeseverythingthroughanationalframing.

Andrew Keen

Well, from his own self-interest, I

Words and timings
Well,fromhisownself-interest,I

Keith Teare

don't know. Well, let's just for a second ignore his self-interest. We can take it for granted he always has self-interest. But I actually think what he shares in common with Andreessen Horowitz, this American framing, means that it's impossible If you accept that there's an AI race, which again, I don't. I think it's a global thing and there's no end game. It just keeps going on. But if you accept there's a race and you want America to win, you can't penalize American AI when the rest of the world is racing ahead. So I think he has a kind of a logical national framing for this whole thing, which makes him...

Words and timings
don'tknow.Well,let'sjustforasecondignorehisself-interest.Wecantakeitforgrantedhealwayshasself-interest.ButIactuallythinkwhathesharesincommonwithAndreessenHorowitz,thisAmericanframing,meansthatit'simpossibleIfyouacceptthatthere'sanAIrace,whichagain,Idon't.Ithinkit'saglobalthingandthere'snoendgame.Itjustkeepsgoingon.Butifyouacceptthere'saraceandyouwantAmericatowin,youcan'tpenalizeAmericanAIwhentherestoftheworldisracingahead.SoIthinkhehasakindofalogicalnationalframingforthiswholething,whichmakeshim...

Keith Teare

An enemy of slowing down.

Words and timings
Anenemyofslowingdown.

Andrew Keen

Plus, there is also the reality, if not, I don't know if it's the political or the economic reality of these upcoming IPOs and the economy's broader dependence on it and the tens, hundreds of billions of dollars being poured into this sector. I mean, no one's going to shut it down. I mean, the only way it will get shut down is if there's some sort of 9-11 event or maybe a COVID event, but otherwise it's not going to be shut down.

Words and timings
Plus,thereisalsothereality,ifnot,Idon'tknowifit'sthepoliticalortheeconomicrealityoftheseupcomingIPOsandtheeconomy'sbroaderdependenceonitandthetens,hundredsofbillionsofdollarsbeingpouredintothissector.Imean,noone'sgoingtoshutitdown.Imean,theonlywayitwillgetshutdownisifthere'ssomesortof9-11eventormaybeaCOVIDevent,butotherwiseit'snotgoingtobeshutdown.

Keith Teare

Well, you know, I think there is increasingly, and Bernie Sanders is leading this, there's an increasing opinion that it should be stopped. They're using the word stopped. Paused is the softer version of the word, but it all amounts to Discontinuing, closing down, whether it reopens again on some new basis.

Words and timings
Well,youknow,Ithinkthereisincreasingly,andBernieSandersisleadingthis,there'sanincreasingopinionthatitshouldbestopped.They'reusingthewordstopped.Pausedisthesofterversionoftheword,butitallamountstoDiscontinuing,closingdown,whetheritreopensagainonsomenewbasis.

Andrew Keen

But I'm not sure how much power, Bernie Sanders isn't even powerful within the Democratic Party.

Words and timings
ButI'mnotsurehowmuchpower,BernieSandersisn'tevenpowerfulwithintheDemocraticParty.

Keith Teare

No, but it's a growing opinion. It's one of those be careful what you ask for moments. I personally think most innovations only become acceptable to those most impacted by them after they've succeeded. In other words, once they deliver the bacon. And AI probably is no different to that. Most people have to experience a positive impact on their life from it To discount some of these fears.

Words and timings
No,butit'sagrowingopinion.It'soneofthosebecarefulwhatyouaskformoments.Ipersonallythinkmostinnovationsonlybecomeacceptabletothosemostimpactedbythemafterthey'vesucceeded.Inotherwords,oncetheydeliverthebacon.AndAIprobablyisnodifferenttothat.MostpeoplehavetoexperienceapositiveimpactontheirlifefromitTodiscountsomeofthesefears.

Andrew Keen

Right. One of the pieces this week was about how, when will average people feel AI's impact for better or worse? I mean, in a sense, they are already because the economy is heating up. Again, I'm not sure whether all average people, I'm not entirely sure what an average person is, but There is a stock market. The strength of the stock market is in many ways still being driven by tech and these impending IPOs. So the story certainly hasn't ended. It's becoming much more interesting, I guess, in political and historic terms.

Words and timings
Right.Oneofthepiecesthisweekwasabouthow,whenwillaveragepeoplefeelAI'simpactforbetterorworse?Imean,inasense,theyarealreadybecausetheeconomyisheatingup.Again,I'mnotsurewhetherallaveragepeople,I'mnotentirelysurewhatanaveragepersonis,butThereisastockmarket.ThestrengthofthestockmarketisinmanywaysstillbeingdrivenbytechandtheseimpendingIPOs.Sothestorycertainlyhasn'tended.It'sbecomingmuchmoreinteresting,Iguess,inpoliticalandhistoricterms.

Keith Teare

Yeah, I think if Trump tied his $5,000 for each American adult to the GDP growth driven by data centers, giving the government Money in the Bank, which of course is only part of it, the rest is tariffs. He could turn AI from being a net negative to being a net positive. It's unlikely he's going to do that.

Words and timings
Yeah,IthinkifTrumptiedhis$5,000foreachAmericanadulttotheGDPgrowthdrivenbydatacenters,givingthegovernmentMoneyintheBank,whichofcourseisonlypartofit,therestistariffs.HecouldturnAIfrombeinganetnegativetobeinganetpositive.It'sunlikelyhe'sgoingtodothat.

Andrew Keen

I somehow suspect that Trump has less and less influence on the national conversation, but we will see on that. Not everyone agrees with you that There Isn't An AI Race. Noah Smith, who you often choose one of the most popular economic writers on Substack, I think he's one of the one or the first or the second most popular person on Substack, has a piece which you link to America Still Beating China in the AI Race. I take your point that it's still a global technological innovation, but one can quantify who's doing better than the other, can't one?

Words and timings
IsomehowsuspectthatTrumphaslessandlessinfluenceonthenationalconversation,butwewillseeonthat.NoteveryoneagreeswithyouthatThereIsn'tAnAIRace.NoahSmith,whoyouoftenchooseoneofthemostpopulareconomicwritersonSubstack,Ithinkhe'soneoftheoneorthefirstorthesecondmostpopularpersononSubstack,hasapiecewhichyoulinktoAmericaStillBeatingChinaintheAIRace.Itakeyourpointthatit'sstillaglobaltechnologicalinnovation,butonecanquantifywho'sdoingbetterthantheother,can'tone?

Keith Teare

Well, you can if you know how the race will end up being won, in quotes. But really, the China-America debate is an open source versus centralized closed source debate.

Words and timings
Well,youcanifyouknowhowtheracewillendupbeingwon,inquotes.Butreally,theChina-Americadebateisanopensourceversuscentralizedclosedsourcedebate.

Andrew Keen

And ironically, of course, it's the Chinese who are in the open source camp, whereas the American are in the closed source.

Words and timings
Andironically,ofcourse,it'stheChinesewhoareintheopensourcecamp,whereastheAmericanareintheclosedsource.

Keith Teare

Correct.

Words and timings
Correct.

Andrew Keen

Which is particularly ironic and troubling, I think, for some Americans.

Words and timings
Whichisparticularlyironicandtroubling,Ithink,forsomeAmericans.

Keith Teare

Yeah. I mean, historically, open source leaks like water into every crevice and surrounds everything and eventually strangles it. Data centers are full of computers running Linux, not Microsoft Windows or Apple Mac OS. The cloud is almost 100% Linux. So open source has a habit of getting everywhere.

Words and timings
Yeah.Imean,historically,opensourceleakslikewaterintoeverycreviceandsurroundseverythingandeventuallystranglesit.DatacentersarefullofcomputersrunningLinux,notMicrosoftWindowsorAppleMacOS.Thecloudisalmost100%Linux.Soopensourcehasahabitofgettingeverywhere.

Andrew Keen

I mean, to put it, I mean, I know you believe that some of this call for AI slowdown is the self-interest of the hyperscalers, Altman, Musk, and Amidai. But if they were to slow down, they're not going to convince the Chinese companies to slow down. So in some ways, if US AI slows down, it's a huge victory for Chinese open source, wouldn't it?

Words and timings
Imean,toputit,Imean,IknowyoubelievethatsomeofthiscallforAIslowdownistheself-interestofthehyperscalers,Altman,Musk,andAmidai.Butiftheyweretoslowdown,they'renotgoingtoconvincetheChinesecompaniestoslowdown.Soinsomeways,ifUSAIslowsdown,it'sahugevictoryforChineseopensource,wouldn'tit?

Keith Teare

Potentially, there's a lot of unknowns about China. Like yesterday was a revelation, and I still haven't figured out if it's true or not, that Kimi was sending every query to Claude, and therefore there was actually no Kimi.

Words and timings
Potentially,there'salotofunknownsaboutChina.Likeyesterdaywasarevelation,andIstillhaven'tfiguredoutifit'strueornot,thatKimiwassendingeveryquerytoClaude,andthereforetherewasactuallynoKimi.

Keith Teare

And it is the case I trained using inference on the American models and therefore are always about a year behind. So there's probably a dependency chain there that doesn't go away. And so realistically, the idea that China would go ahead if we slowed down, I think it might not be true. I think there'd always be a gap.

Words and timings
AnditisthecaseItrainedusinginferenceontheAmericanmodelsandthereforearealwaysaboutayearbehind.Sothere'sprobablyadependencychaintherethatdoesn'tgoaway.Andsorealistically,theideathatChinawouldgoaheadifwesloweddown,Ithinkitmightnotbetrue.Ithinkthere'dalwaysbeagap.

Andrew Keen

Yeah, my guess is that it will take a major disaster of some sort or other to bring the Americans and the Chinese to the same table. Alex Kantrowitz. Always seems to be quite sensible. He has a piece, it's time to bring some sanity to the AI risk conversation. Now I take your point, you don't believe that AI offers an existential risk, but Keith, given that so many people do, is there a conversation, a sane conversation, which everyone can come to the table and recognize the legitimacy of each other's positions?

Words and timings
Yeah,myguessisthatitwilltakeamajordisasterofsomesortorothertobringtheAmericansandtheChinesetothesametable.AlexKantrowitz.Alwaysseemstobequitesensible.Hehasapiece,it'stimetobringsomesanitytotheAIriskconversation.NowItakeyourpoint,youdon'tbelievethatAIoffersanexistentialrisk,butKeith,giventhatsomanypeopledo,isthereaconversation,asaneconversation,whicheveryonecancometothetableandrecognizethelegitimacyofeachother'spositions?

Keith Teare

Well, there's a sane conversation. You know, the thing about politics is it doesn't matter whether you think the other side is wrong. Your job is to win the argument if you disagree with them and you won't win the argument by shouting at them. So there's always the need for a sane conversation. Unfortunately, the form that that's taking, and it may be insincere, is the AI leaders pretending that they share the concerns And putting in place palliatives, which if the critics are right, won't solve the problem.

Words and timings
Well,there'sasaneconversation.Youknow,thethingaboutpoliticsisitdoesn'tmatterwhetheryouthinktheothersideiswrong.Yourjobistowintheargumentifyoudisagreewiththemandyouwon'twintheargumentbyshoutingatthem.Sothere'salwaystheneedforasaneconversation.Unfortunately,theformthatthat'staking,anditmaybeinsincere,istheAIleaderspretendingthattheysharetheconcernsAndputtinginplacepalliatives,whichifthecriticsareright,won'tsolvetheproblem.

Andrew Keen

Why are they doing this just out of self in your view, out of self interest?

Words and timings
Whyaretheydoingthisjustoutofselfinyourview,outofselfinterest?

Keith Teare

There's many, there's many theories of it, I guess the most benign theory would be, they, they want to keep developing. And so they have to, you know, a bit like in England, we all Always put in place a royal commission whenever the people get angry about something. And the commission looks at the evidence and sometimes takes years to arrive at conclusions. They're saying they're going to put in place external monitors that are working inside the company and so on. There's all these kind of plans to assure the public that safety steps are being taken. But look, if... If recursive self-learning is teaching agents that can't be relied on to follow rules, nothing you do to slow it down or monitor it is going to be helpful.

Words and timings
There'smany,there'smanytheoriesofit,Iguessthemostbenigntheorywouldbe,they,theywanttokeepdeveloping.Andsotheyhaveto,youknow,abitlikeinEngland,weallAlwaysputinplacearoyalcommissionwheneverthepeoplegetangryaboutsomething.Andthecommissionlooksattheevidenceandsometimestakesyearstoarriveatconclusions.They'resayingthey'regoingtoputinplaceexternalmonitorsthatareworkinginsidethecompanyandsoon.There'sallthesekindofplanstoassurethepublicthatsafetystepsarebeingtaken.Butlook,if...Ifrecursiveself-learningisteachingagentsthatcan'tbereliedontofollowrules,nothingyoudotoslowitdownormonitoritisgoingtobehelpful.

Andrew Keen

So in a way, you're kind of calling for shutting it down. If you're wrong on this recursive issue, if you're wrong that AIs can't think for themselves, then the whole thing should be shut down. Are you saying that?

Words and timings
Soinaway,you'rekindofcallingforshuttingitdown.Ifyou'rewrongonthisrecursiveissue,ifyou'rewrongthatAIscan'tthinkforthemselves,thenthewholethingshouldbeshutdown.Areyousayingthat?

Keith Teare

No, I'm saying that's the only conclusion you could arrive at to satisfy the other side. And if the other side accepted anything less than that, then you have to doubt that they believe their own arguments.

Words and timings
No,I'msayingthat'stheonlyconclusionyoucouldarriveattosatisfytheotherside.Andiftheothersideacceptedanythinglessthanthat,thenyouhavetodoubtthattheybelievetheirownarguments.

Andrew Keen

So are you saying then that Altman and Musk and Amidoy, they don't believe what they're saying? So these headlines today, it's just some scam on their part and that there's another agenda for them?

Words and timings
SoareyousayingthenthatAltmanandMuskandAmidoy,theydon'tbelievewhatthey'resaying?Sotheseheadlinestoday,it'sjustsomescamontheirpartandthatthere'sanotheragendaforthem?

Keith Teare

I said correct, but actually, let me just think about that. Usually people are sincere. So they're either very naive. They think that this reaction will take the sting or the heat out of the conversation and give them some space. Or they're manipulative. So let's take the first, that they're just naive. It won't end in a good place. The demands to shut it down will get louder the more capable the AI becomes. So unless you can show people that there are benefits to AI and that the safety issues are not real, of course, always put in place whatever controls you can. I think agents going rogue in the lab is easy to control. The fact that they say they can slow it down By limiting the resources made available to any given agent, that's real. They can do all of those things. But ultimately, if an agent is malicious and powerful, you've got to assume it will work around whatever limits you put in place. I disagree with that premise. I don't think agents are conscious, thoughtful, goal-orientated.

Words and timings
Isaidcorrect,butactually,letmejustthinkaboutthat.Usuallypeoplearesincere.Sothey'reeitherverynaive.Theythinkthatthisreactionwilltakethestingortheheatoutoftheconversationandgivethemsomespace.Orthey'remanipulative.Solet'stakethefirst,thatthey'rejustnaive.Itwon'tendinagoodplace.ThedemandstoshutitdownwillgetlouderthemorecapabletheAIbecomes.SounlessyoucanshowpeoplethattherearebenefitstoAIandthatthesafetyissuesarenotreal,ofcourse,alwaysputinplacewhatevercontrolsyoucan.Ithinkagentsgoingrogueinthelabiseasytocontrol.ThefactthattheysaytheycanslowitdownBylimitingtheresourcesmadeavailabletoanygivenagent,that'sreal.Theycandoallofthosethings.Butultimately,ifanagentismaliciousandpowerful,you'vegottoassumeitwillworkaroundwhateverlimitsyouputinplace.Idisagreewiththatpremise.Idon'tthinkagentsareconscious,thoughtful,goal-orientated.

Andrew Keen

Yeah, I think you're increasingly in a small minority here. Who's in your camp in the tech community now?

Words and timings
Yeah,Ithinkyou'reincreasinglyinasmallminorityhere.Who'sinyourcampinthetechcommunitynow?

Keith Teare

I'd say pretty much everyone.

Words and timings
I'dsayprettymucheveryone.

Andrew Keen

Well, I mean, Amidai, Musk, Amidai, and Altman are in your account.

Words and timings
Well,Imean,Amidai,Musk,Amidai,andAltmanareinyouraccount.

Keith Teare

I think that Musk and Altman are, they're just being politicians. I think Amidai might be as well. I mean, remember, he's running Anthropic, which is racing to improve AI and do a Yeah, but he wants to slow down. And do a $2 trillion IPO. Well, he wants to slow it down for what reason, Andrew? What's his reason?

Words and timings
IthinkthatMuskandAltmanare,they'rejustbeingpoliticians.IthinkAmidaimightbeaswell.Imean,remember,he'srunningAnthropic,whichisracingtoimproveAIanddoaYeah,buthewantstoslowdown.Anddoa$2trillionIPO.Well,hewantstoslowitdownforwhatreason,Andrew?What'shisreason?

Andrew Keen

Well, I mean, what he says is it needs to be slowed down. And I'm quoting from the headline in the FT that humans could lose control of the technology. I think Altman called his

Words and timings
Well,Imean,whathesaysisitneedstobesloweddown.AndI'mquotingfromtheheadlineintheFTthathumanscouldlosecontrolofthetechnology.IthinkAltmancalledhis

Keith Teare

bluff this morning. Altman said in his interview with Fortune that OpenEye will not be doing an IPO this year. Because given the discussion around safety, it doesn't appear to be the best moment to do it. Well, what about Dario? Is he going to pull his IPO?

Words and timings
bluffthismorning.AltmansaidinhisinterviewwithFortunethatOpenEyewillnotbedoinganIPOthisyear.Becausegiventhediscussionaroundsafety,itdoesn'tappeartobethebestmomenttodoit.Well,whataboutDario?IshegoingtopullhisIPO?

Andrew Keen

Yeah, that's a good question. I don't think

Words and timings
Yeah,that'sagoodquestion.Idon'tthink

Keith Teare

he is. I think he's playing a game.

Words and timings
heis.Ithinkhe'splayingagame.

Andrew Keen

A high-stakes

Words and timings
Ahigh-stakes

Keith Teare

game, but he's playing a game.

Words and timings
game,buthe'splayingagame.

Andrew Keen

Well, we'll see. As I said, I think we are in... My senses were in new territory. You haven't really said that.

Words and timings
Well,we'llsee.AsIsaid,Ithinkwearein...Mysenseswereinnewterritory.Youhaven'treallysaidthat.

Keith Teare

Well, I kind of get your point when it comes to the atmosphere.

Words and timings
Well,Ikindofgetyourpointwhenitcomestotheatmosphere.

Andrew Keen

Whatever the technological truths or lack of truths, there are political truths and realities and economic ones. And it seems to me that we are, as I said, Edging into new territory when both the left and the right seem to agree on this. No, it's Congress, both Republicans and Democrats seem to be quote unquote waking up. They seem to be asleep for better or worse. But we will see. I mean, it's certainly not going to change everything this weekend. This will be a subject we come back to in our show.

Words and timings
Whateverthetechnologicaltruthsorlackoftruths,therearepoliticaltruthsandrealitiesandeconomicones.Anditseemstomethatweare,asIsaid,Edgingintonewterritorywhenboththeleftandtherightseemtoagreeonthis.No,it'sCongress,bothRepublicansandDemocratsseemtobequoteunquotewakingup.Theyseemtobeasleepforbetterorworse.Butwewillsee.Imean,it'scertainlynotgoingtochangeeverythingthisweekend.Thiswillbeasubjectwecomebacktoinourshow.

Keith Teare

But if you roll the clock forward to after the midterms, I think the US government at the White House level does nothing to regulate AI. It just won't happen. Congress, it's an open question how it turns out, Congress. I think it's pretty hard for the Democrats to get a majority of both houses, but they could. I think that's going to be what the real change is. And if the Democrats don't get control of both houses, my guess is nothing changes. You know, the market settled down, the IPOs probably do happen, and AI continues to be developed.

Words and timings
Butifyourolltheclockforwardtoafterthemidterms,IthinktheUSgovernmentattheWhiteHouseleveldoesnothingtoregulateAI.Itjustwon'thappen.Congress,it'sanopenquestionhowitturnsout,Congress.Ithinkit'sprettyhardfortheDemocratstogetamajorityofbothhouses,buttheycould.Ithinkthat'sgoingtobewhattherealchangeis.AndiftheDemocratsdon'tgetcontrolofbothhouses,myguessisnothingchanges.Youknow,themarketsettleddown,theIPOsprobablydohappen,andAIcontinuestobedeveloped.

Andrew Keen

Well, that's the best-case scenario, and that's if there is no further disaster of one kind, or if you're right on this recursive...

Words and timings
Well,that'sthebest-casescenario,andthat'sifthereisnofurtherdisasterofonekind,orifyou'rerightonthisrecursive...

Keith Teare

Well, we say further disaster, but there hasn't been any disaster so far.

Words and timings
Well,wesayfurtherdisaster,buttherehasn'tbeenanydisastersofar.

Andrew Keen

Well, if there is a disaster, so that's all speculative. Let's move on. We've talked about this enough. You had an interesting piece you connected, you sent to me about what writers who use AI want you to know. You and I both use AI. I think it's hard to imagine any writer who wouldn't use it, although there are some. What does this piece tell us about how AI can help writers?

Words and timings
Well,ifthereisadisaster,sothat'sallspeculative.Let'smoveon.We'vetalkedaboutthisenough.Youhadaninterestingpieceyouconnected,yousenttomeaboutwhatwriterswhouseAIwantyoutoknow.YouandIbothuseAI.Ithinkit'shardtoimagineanywriterwhowouldn'tuseit,althoughtherearesome.WhatdoesthispiecetellusabouthowAIcanhelpwriters?

Keith Teare

So this was written on every, which is a kind of an aggregated publication of good writers in general. And it was interviews done by the authoress with various writers, one of which was Kevin Ruse.

Words and timings
Sothiswaswrittenonevery,whichisakindofanaggregatedpublicationofgoodwritersingeneral.Anditwasinterviewsdonebytheauthoresswithvariouswriters,oneofwhichwasKevinRuse.

Keith Teare

And it was quite detailed process disclosure about how they use AI. And to be honest, it was quite similar to the conversations you and I have had Um, Kevin Rooster's written a book, 428 pages, which they used AI extensively for. Um, he, he says that he created the chapters, uh, and the structure of the book. And then AI did about three years worth of work, uh, from, from that starting point, which is quite similar to what I did with the human dividend.

Words and timings
AnditwasquitedetailedprocessdisclosureabouthowtheyuseAI.Andtobehonest,itwasquitesimilartotheconversationsyouandIhavehadUm,KevinRooster'swrittenabook,428pages,whichtheyusedAIextensivelyfor.Um,he,hesaysthathecreatedthechapters,uh,andthestructureofthebook.AndthenAIdidaboutthreeyearsworthofwork,uh,from,fromthatstartingpoint,whichisquitesimilartowhatIdidwiththehumandividend.

Andrew Keen

Well, yours is already a bestseller, isn't it? How many millions of copies have you sold over or given away?

Words and timings
Well,yoursisalreadyabestseller,isn'tit?Howmanymillionsofcopieshaveyousoldoverorgivenaway?

Keith Teare

You know, you go for these low blows.

Words and timings
Youknow,yougofortheselowblows.

Andrew Keen

Yeah, but you say it's a book. I mean, Ruz spent four years on it. You spent, what, four weeks? No, he didn't.

Words and timings
Yeah,butyousayit'sabook.Imean,Ruzspentfouryearsonit.Youspent,what,fourweeks?No,hedidn't.

Keith Teare

He spent one year.

Words and timings
Hespentoneyear.

Andrew Keen

Well, he spent a year.

Words and timings
Well,hespentayear.

Keith Teare

And he says it's four years worth of effort because of AI. Well, mine isn't published yet, and I've so far spent three months, so maybe it'll be a year by the time I publish it.

Words and timings
Andhesaysit'sfouryearsworthofeffortbecauseofAI.Well,mineisn'tpublishedyet,andI'vesofarspentthreemonths,somaybeit'llbeayearbythetimeIpublishit.

Andrew Keen

Well, I'll have to get, but so yeah.

Words and timings
Well,I'llhavetoget,butsoyeah.

Keith Teare

But you shouldn't be so cynical because actually I think what Ruth discloses there as a process is exactly the process I used.

Words and timings
Butyoushouldn'tbesocynicalbecauseactuallyIthinkwhatRuthdisclosesthereasaprocessisexactlytheprocessIused.

Andrew Keen

Well, I mean, it's a process that many writers will use in terms of crunching information. I'm not sure, did Ruth say he used AI in terms of the actual writing or just to sort of manage the information?

Words and timings
Well,Imean,it'saprocessthatmanywriterswilluseintermsofcrunchinginformation.I'mnotsure,didRuthsayheusedAIintermsoftheactualwritingorjusttosortofmanagetheinformation?

Keith Teare

No, he used it and then he went and edited it. He kicked it off with chapters, which he says, Most of the six months of his work was figuring out the structure of the book. He talks about it in quite a lot of detail. Once he had the structure and the main narrative and the arguments, which were bullet point style and chapters with bullet points, then AI kicked in and then he edited it and he said the whole thing took a year, whereas it would have taken him three to four years if he did all the work.

Words and timings
No,heuseditandthenhewentandeditedit.Hekickeditoffwithchapters,whichhesays,Mostofthesixmonthsofhisworkwasfiguringoutthestructureofthebook.Hetalksaboutitinquitealotofdetail.Oncehehadthestructureandthemainnarrativeandthearguments,whichwerebulletpointstyleandchapterswithbulletpoints,thenAIkickedinandthenheediteditandhesaidthewholethingtookayear,whereasitwouldhavetakenhimthreetofouryearsifhedidallthework.

Andrew Keen

I think that's okay.

Words and timings
Ithinkthat'sokay.

Keith Teare

I think that's a very good process.

Words and timings
Ithinkthat'saverygoodprocess.

Andrew Keen

Yeah, I don't think anyone would argue on that. There was a good piece in the Financial Times. I was really struck with a piece on moonshot capitalism. AI rewrites the venture capital playbook. And it really was astonishing how much capital is being poured into this moonshot sector and particularly how America continues to dominate one of the One of the images is of US VC funding on deep tech. I guess it was at 246 billion. China at 105 billion. And then the next country after that is the UK at 26. So it really is astonishing. I know you don't always like to think of these things in national competition terms, but it really is astonishing how far the US is ahead on this.

Words and timings
Yeah,Idon'tthinkanyonewouldargueonthat.TherewasagoodpieceintheFinancialTimes.Iwasreallystruckwithapieceonmoonshotcapitalism.AIrewritestheventurecapitalplaybook.AnditreallywasastonishinghowmuchcapitalisbeingpouredintothismoonshotsectorandparticularlyhowAmericacontinuestodominateoneoftheOneoftheimagesisofUSVCfundingondeeptech.Iguessitwasat246billion.Chinaat105billion.AndthenthenextcountryafterthatistheUKat26.Soitreallyisastonishing.Iknowyoudon'talwaysliketothinkofthesethingsinnationalcompetitionterms,butitreallyisastonishinghowfartheUSisaheadonthis.

Keith Teare

Oh, yeah.

Words and timings
Oh,yeah.

Andrew Keen

Especially compared to Europe. I mean, Germany has only put 11 billion in. Israel's done more than Germany. Israel's at 12 billion, Sweden at 13, France at 14, UK at 26, and the US at 246.

Words and timings
EspeciallycomparedtoEurope.Imean,Germanyhasonlyput11billionin.Israel'sdonemorethanGermany.Israel'sat12billion,Swedenat13,Franceat14,UKat26,andtheUSat246.

Keith Teare

And the US is really 80% California. So if you think of it that way, California is that much bigger than any European nation. No, look, the US is, from a financial point of view, the entire history of the US with Wall Street, private equity and venture capital collectively has created the possibility of huge and rapid real-time investment in opportunities as they arise without any delay, because there's no policy oversight that stops it. China, there's a huge policy oversight. Despite that, it's second. And in Europe, there's a regulatory framework that's about 10 times slower than China's.

Words and timings
AndtheUSisreally80%California.Soifyouthinkofitthatway,CaliforniaisthatmuchbiggerthananyEuropeannation.No,look,theUSis,fromafinancialpointofview,theentirehistoryoftheUSwithWallStreet,privateequityandventurecapitalcollectivelyhascreatedthepossibilityofhugeandrapidreal-timeinvestmentinopportunitiesastheyarisewithoutanydelay,becausethere'snopolicyoversightthatstopsit.China,there'sahugepolicyoversight.Despitethat,it'ssecond.AndinEurope,there'saregulatoryframeworkthat'sabout10timesslowerthanChina's.

Andrew Keen

Yeah, I mean, the European numbers are astonishing in terms of the comparison.

Words and timings
Yeah,Imean,theEuropeannumbersareastonishingintermsofthecomparison.

Keith Teare

So you could think of that as regulation inhibited Europe. China somewhat, but not enough to stop them being second. And the US, there's none at all. Which is why there's such a strong voice in Silicon Valley against regulation.

Words and timings
SoyoucouldthinkofthatasregulationinhibitedEurope.Chinasomewhat,butnotenoughtostopthembeingsecond.AndtheUS,there'snoneatall.Whichiswhythere'ssuchastrongvoiceinSiliconValleyagainstregulation.

Andrew Keen

Although there is some. I mean, you have a piece this week about California enacting laws restricting chatbots and banning teens from quote-unquote addictive social media. So, I mean, there is some regulation in the US. It's not just a Wild West.

Words and timings
Althoughthereissome.Imean,youhaveapiecethisweekaboutCaliforniaenactinglawsrestrictingchatbotsandbanningteensfromquote-unquoteaddictivesocialmedia.So,Imean,thereissomeregulationintheUS.It'snotjustaWildWest.

Keith Teare

Yeah, I think he's very light and not very well-pleased in general. I mean, have you noticed any teens stopping using social media in the last week? I definitely haven't.

Words and timings
Yeah,Ithinkhe'sverylightandnotverywell-pleasedingeneral.Imean,haveyounoticedanyteensstoppingusingsocialmediainthelastweek?Idefinitelyhaven't.

Andrew Keen

Well, I don't know any teens. My kids are older.

Words and timings
Well,Idon'tknowanyteens.Mykidsareolder.

Keith Teare

Yeah, mine too. So maybe we're not typical, but I do think the point in that article, which is really important, is the venture capital power law, which is roughly the law that says, 80% of the gains will come from 2% of the companies, means that money is piling in to a very small number of companies at great scale. And that is to be read alongside Andreessen Horowitz, probably something yesterday, saying that returns from venture capital after the SpaceX IPO now dwarf returns from private equity, which historically has been much bigger than venture capital.

Words and timings
Yeah,minetoo.Somaybewe'renottypical,butIdothinkthepointinthatarticle,whichisreallyimportant,istheventurecapitalpowerlaw,whichisroughlythelawthatsays,80%ofthegainswillcomefrom2%ofthecompanies,meansthatmoneyispilingintoaverysmallnumberofcompaniesatgreatscale.AndthatistobereadalongsideAndreessenHorowitz,probablysomethingyesterday,sayingthatreturnsfromventurecapitalaftertheSpaceXIPOnowdwarfreturnsfromprivateequity,whichhistoricallyhasbeenmuchbiggerthanventurecapital.

Andrew Keen

And that's why this whole issue of slowing down AI or shutting it down or flipping the kill switch, that's why it's much, much bigger than just the technology issue. It's an issue that addresses the whole future of the American economy, which explains Trump, maybe explains in some ways Amidai, but it makes it Enormously consequential in historical terms. I'm not sure how it's going to work out, but it's going to be very interesting.

Words and timings
Andthat'swhythiswholeissueofslowingdownAIorshuttingitdownorflippingthekillswitch,that'swhyit'smuch,muchbiggerthanjustthetechnologyissue.It'sanissuethataddressesthewholefutureoftheAmericaneconomy,whichexplainsTrump,maybeexplainsinsomewaysAmidai,butitmakesitEnormouslyconsequentialinhistoricalterms.I'mnotsurehowit'sgoingtoworkout,butit'sgoingtobeveryinteresting.

Keith Teare

I don't think money would stop a shutdown of AI if AI threatened humanity in the way that's being implied. I mean, honestly... No, I

Words and timings
Idon'tthinkmoneywouldstopashutdownofAIifAIthreatenedhumanityinthewaythat'sbeingimplied.Imean,honestly...No,I

Andrew Keen

mean, no one's saying that.

Words and timings
mean,noone'ssayingthat.

Keith Teare

Right.

Words and timings
Right.

Andrew Keen

So if any of us don't know the threat, I mean, if I mean, if if if if you're not sure, but you suspect it could destroy humanity or create some disaster, then maybe the economic downside of shutting it all down plays a role in your decision.

Words and timings
Soifanyofusdon'tknowthethreat,Imean,ifImean,ififififyou'renotsure,butyoususpectitcoulddestroyhumanityorcreatesomedisaster,thenmaybetheeconomicdownsideofshuttingitalldownplaysaroleinyourdecision.

Keith Teare

Well, if you think of the chain of events that would have to happen, it's actually a really good exercise to gameplay what would actually happen For AI to Threaten Humanity, probably the only two weapons that could do that are biological or nuclear. So what would be the steps an AI would have to take to get the ability to both develop, deploy and successfully land a biological or nuclear weapons that would erase humanity? The sequence of events is fantastical.

Words and timings
Well,ifyouthinkofthechainofeventsthatwouldhavetohappen,it'sactuallyareallygoodexercisetogameplaywhatwouldactuallyhappenForAItoThreatenHumanity,probablytheonlytwoweaponsthatcoulddothatarebiologicalornuclear.SowhatwouldbethestepsanAIwouldhavetotaketogettheabilitytobothdevelop,deployandsuccessfullylandabiologicalornuclearweaponsthatwoulderasehumanity?Thesequenceofeventsisfantastical.

Andrew Keen

It's like 9-11, you might have said, wait, we just celebrated.

Words and timings
It'slike9-11,youmighthavesaid,wait,wejustcelebrated.

Keith Teare

9-11 is one airplane. This is way more complex than that.

Words and timings
9-11isoneairplane.Thisiswaymorecomplexthanthat.

Andrew Keen

Well, but if you'd have said, oh, these guys are going to hijack a plane or hijack a series of planes and crash them into the World Trade Center and destroy all the buildings and crash into Pentagon, you'd say, well, that's not very realistic. That's not going to happen. Anyway, let's move on. We know what you think on this. One good piece of news, I thought, was your company of the week or startup of the week is Starbucks. We don't think of as a high-tech company. They bet a billion dollars on a coffeehouse antidote to lonely digital lives, which I think speaks to the economic opportunities to some of the downsides of tech. Do you think that this Might help the loneliness epidemic? Or is it just a clever marketing scheme on the part of Starbucks?

Words and timings
Well,butifyou'dhavesaid,oh,theseguysaregoingtohijackaplaneorhijackaseriesofplanesandcrashthemintotheWorldTradeCenteranddestroyallthebuildingsandcrashintoPentagon,you'dsay,well,that'snotveryrealistic.That'snotgoingtohappen.Anyway,let'smoveon.Weknowwhatyouthinkonthis.Onegoodpieceofnews,Ithought,wasyourcompanyoftheweekorstartupoftheweekisStarbucks.Wedon'tthinkofasahigh-techcompany.Theybetabilliondollarsonacoffeehouseantidotetolonelydigitallives,whichIthinkspeakstotheeconomicopportunitiestosomeofthedownsidesoftech.DoyouthinkthatthisMighthelpthelonelinessepidemic?OrisitjustaclevermarketingschemeonthepartofStarbucks?

Keith Teare

My camera changed, Andrew.

Words and timings
Mycamerachanged,Andrew.

Andrew Keen

I think the main one... Yeah, I think you've been hacked by Hugging Face or by Dario because you've been so rude about it.

Words and timings
Ithinkthemainone...Yeah,Ithinkyou'vebeenhackedbyHuggingFaceorbyDariobecauseyou'vebeensorudeaboutit.

Keith Teare

Exactly. You know, I thought it was interesting, and it is kind of a startup. Starbucks is turning into, do you remember the Barnes & Noble sofas and tables?

Words and timings
Exactly.Youknow,Ithoughtitwasinteresting,anditiskindofastartup.Starbucksisturninginto,doyouremembertheBarnes&Noblesofasandtables?

Andrew Keen

Yeah, they didn't do very well, so I'm not sure of that.

Words and timings
Yeah,theydidn'tdoverywell,soI'mnotsureofthat.

Keith Teare

Well, they did for a while. For a while it worked. People came in. I mean, with Starbucks, there is a nightmare scenario where, you know, San Francisco's homeless all go and lays around on sofas in Starbucks. Yeah. But they are kind of reinventing.

Words and timings
Well,theydidforawhile.Forawhileitworked.Peoplecamein.Imean,withStarbucks,thereisanightmarescenariowhere,youknow,SanFrancisco'shomelessallgoandlaysaroundonsofasinStarbucks.Yeah.Buttheyarekindofreinventing.

Andrew Keen

Who was that a nightmare for, the Starbucks or the homeless people? I'm not sure you'd call it a nightmare. That might be a bit of an exaggeration. That's the Palo Alto view.

Words and timings
Whowasthatanightmarefor,theStarbucksorthehomelesspeople?I'mnotsureyou'dcallitanightmare.Thatmightbeabitofanexaggeration.That'sthePaloAltoview.

Keith Teare

Yeah. Anyway, look, they're reinventing themselves as a place to hang out. And it's counter the atomized, individualized culture of the digital world. And they're making a bet On people hanging out in a community-like chat space, a real-life chat space. I think I'd bet against it working. If I was analyzing Starbucks as an analyst, I think the biggest problem is that coffee isn't very good, so you don't go there.

Words and timings
Yeah.Anyway,look,they'rereinventingthemselvesasaplacetohangout.Andit'scountertheatomized,individualizedcultureofthedigitalworld.Andthey'remakingabetOnpeoplehangingoutinacommunity-likechatspace,areal-lifechatspace.IthinkI'dbetagainstitworking.IfIwasanalyzingStarbucksasananalyst,Ithinkthebiggestproblemisthatcoffeeisn'tverygood,soyoudon'tgothere.

Andrew Keen

Yeah, I don't drink coffee. I sometimes go there because it can be a pleasant place to sit If you need a place

Words and timings
Yeah,Idon'tdrinkcoffee.IsometimesgotherebecauseitcanbeapleasantplacetositIfyouneedaplace

Keith Teare

to sit, yeah, with your laptop.

Words and timings
tosit,yeah,withyourlaptop.

Andrew Keen

But I think what it does speak to, which is I think fairly obvious, is that there are many analog opportunities in the increasing digitalization of life. I mean, I know some kids doing startups around this loneliness epidemic too, so that clearly it speaks to the economic opportunities of some of the problems with tech. And I'm sure there'll be many when it comes

Words and timings
ButIthinkwhatitdoesspeakto,whichisIthinkfairlyobvious,isthattherearemanyanalogopportunitiesintheincreasingdigitalizationoflife.Imean,Iknowsomekidsdoingstartupsaroundthislonelinessepidemictoo,sothatclearlyitspeakstotheeconomicopportunitiesofsomeoftheproblemswithtech.AndI'msurethere'llbemanywhenitcomes

Andrew Keen

interview of the week is with Alex Edmonds, popular London Business School writer, professor. He has a new book out, The Madness of Markets, Why Smart Investors Make Crazy Decisions. His example is Isaac Newton who lost the fortune on the South Sea Bubble. Could also use the example of Mark Twain. This came up in a show a couple of weeks ago with Jeff Jarvis, who lost the fortune investing in the wrong typeset technology in the late 19th century. You're an investment professional, Keith. Do you agree with Edmunds? Do you think that really smart people like Newton and Twain

Words and timings
interviewoftheweekiswithAlexEdmonds,popularLondonBusinessSchoolwriter,professor.Hehasanewbookout,TheMadnessofMarkets,WhySmartInvestorsMakeCrazyDecisions.HisexampleisIsaacNewtonwholostthefortuneontheSouthSeaBubble.CouldalsousetheexampleofMarkTwain.ThiscameupinashowacoupleofweeksagowithJeffJarvis,wholostthefortuneinvestinginthewrongtypesettechnologyinthelate19thcentury.You'reaninvestmentprofessional,Keith.DoyouagreewithEdmunds?DoyouthinkthatreallysmartpeoplelikeNewtonandTwain

Andrew Keen

Make just as dumb decisions as anyone else?

Words and timings
Makejustasdumbdecisionsasanyoneelse?

Keith Teare

Yeah, there's a long history of dumb decisions. I remember when I was starting my first internet company in 1994, EasyNet, the craze at that time was interactive television. And the cable networks and the broadcast networks were spending billions and billions and billions of dollars on making your TV interactive. And my sociologist background, I had a very simple pushback, which was the living room usually is for more than one person. And if the TV becomes interactive, whoever is changing it is going to piss off the other people in the room. And so by definition, TV is not intended to be interactive. It's a social viewing medium, not the private.

Words and timings
Yeah,there'salonghistoryofdumbdecisions.IrememberwhenIwasstartingmyfirstinternetcompanyin1994,EasyNet,thecrazeatthattimewasinteractivetelevision.AndthecablenetworksandthebroadcastnetworkswerespendingbillionsandbillionsandbillionsofdollarsonmakingyourTVinteractive.Andmysociologistbackground,Ihadaverysimplepushback,whichwasthelivingroomusuallyisformorethanoneperson.AndiftheTVbecomesinteractive,whoeverischangingitisgoingtopissofftheotherpeopleintheroom.Andsobydefinition,TVisnotintendedtobeinteractive.It'sasocialviewingmedium,nottheprivate.

Andrew Keen

No, but his point is that smart people think they're smart, so they Feel they can just, you know, that they have an instinct. I mean, I don't know who we consider really smart people. I mean, Einstein isn't around these days, but the equivalent of an Einstein today, would you trust them? Do you pitch them for your investment platform?

Words and timings
No,buthispointisthatsmartpeoplethinkthey'resmart,sotheyFeeltheycanjust,youknow,thattheyhaveaninstinct.Imean,Idon'tknowwhoweconsiderreallysmartpeople.Imean,Einsteinisn'taroundthesedays,buttheequivalentofanEinsteintoday,wouldyoutrustthem?Doyoupitchthemforyourinvestmentplatform?

Andrew Keen

I mean, who may, or let me revise the question.

Words and timings
Imean,whomay,orletmerevisethequestion.

Keith Teare

You're talking about experts, really, aren't you? And I'd say experts.

Words and timings
You'retalkingaboutexperts,really,aren'tyou?AndI'dsayexperts.

Andrew Keen

I mean, people we consider smart. I mean, who in your mind, what type of person makes the best investments?

Words and timings
Imean,peopleweconsidersmart.Imean,whoinyourmind,whattypeofpersonmakesthebestinvestments?

Keith Teare

Well, weirdly, the history of Wall Street tells you the best investors are working class, street smart kids who become brokers. It's not experts. It's people who smell a deal.

Words and timings
Well,weirdly,thehistoryofWallStreettellsyouthebestinvestorsareworkingclass,streetsmartkidswhobecomebrokers.It'snotexperts.It'speoplewhosmelladeal.

Andrew Keen

And recognize, I mean, Edmund's point is they recognize their own limitations.

Words and timings
Andrecognize,Imean,Edmund'spointistheyrecognizetheirownlimitations.

Keith Teare

I don't even know if that's true. I just think that inventors are not gamblers. And so almost all inventors will be a bad investor. An inventor equals smart equals, you know, clever. I wouldn't expect them to be good investors. Now, there are exceptions like Elon Musk, He's not actually an inventor, Elon. He's more of an operator, but he's a very good investor and has shown that. I doubt that Altman would be a good investor. I don't think Dario would be a good investor.

Words and timings
Idon'tevenknowifthat'strue.Ijustthinkthatinventorsarenotgamblers.Andsoalmostallinventorswillbeabadinvestor.Aninventorequalssmartequals,youknow,clever.Iwouldn'texpectthemtobegoodinvestors.Now,thereareexceptionslikeElonMusk,He'snotactuallyaninventor,Elon.He'smoreofanoperator,buthe'saverygoodinvestorandhasshownthat.IdoubtthatAltmanwouldbeagoodinvestor.Idon'tthinkDariowouldbeagoodinvestor.

Andrew Keen

Yeah, I think Dario would be good at anything.

Words and timings
Yeah,IthinkDariowouldbegoodatanything.

Keith Teare

I think he's pretty good at politics. He's pretty good at politics.

Words and timings
Ithinkhe'sprettygoodatpolitics.He'sprettygoodatpolitics.

Andrew Keen

If we were doing this show five or 10 years ago, Keith, we wouldn't have talked about any of this. We would have led and spent hours talking about the Apple announcements this week, the iPhone Duo, the first iPhone split screen device. Is that because we're in a new moment or is it because AI is so dominant? You linked to a... A Ben Thompson piece that suggests that in the context of this Apple announcement this week, they're still missing with their new CEO, they're still missing an AI strategy, which I actually agree with. So why have we left it right to the end to talk about Apple? Does it not really matter anymore? Hardware?

Words and timings
Ifweweredoingthisshowfiveor10yearsago,Keith,wewouldn'thavetalkedaboutanyofthis.WewouldhaveledandspenthourstalkingabouttheAppleannouncementsthisweek,theiPhoneDuo,thefirstiPhonesplitscreendevice.Isthatbecausewe'reinanewmomentorisitbecauseAIissodominant?Youlinkedtoa...ABenThompsonpiecethatsuggeststhatinthecontextofthisAppleannouncementthisweek,they'restillmissingwiththeirnewCEO,they'restillmissinganAIstrategy,whichIactuallyagreewith.SowhyhaveweleftitrighttotheendtotalkaboutApple?Doesitnotreallymatteranymore?Hardware?

Keith Teare

I think it can, but I don't think any of their announcements had a big enough impact on the primary trends. I mean, the foldable iPhone, I'm not getting one.

Words and timings
Ithinkitcan,butIdon'tthinkanyoftheirannouncementshadabigenoughimpactontheprimarytrends.Imean,thefoldableiPhone,I'mnotgettingone.

Andrew Keen

Yeah, because you don't like foldables, but they say that every foldable made so far has been kind of a piece of crap, and they've thought it through, and the early reviews have actually been quite good. Are you going to get one? I'm open to looking at it. I'll certainly go and have a look.

Words and timings
Yeah,becauseyoudon'tlikefoldables,buttheysaythateveryfoldablemadesofarhasbeenkindofapieceofcrap,andthey'vethoughtitthrough,andtheearlyreviewshaveactuallybeenquitegood.Areyougoingtogetone?I'mopentolookingatit.I'llcertainlygoandhavealook.

Keith Teare

I mean, I did buy the Android 10 foldable, sorry, 9 foldable. And it was very similar, very beautiful screen when you opened it up and it had four screens all together, four sides. And it works. I just, you know, I don't think I have a need. I don't think it serves a need for me. I've got an iPad and I've got a phone. If it replaced both, maybe I'd think about it, but it's too big. It's a weird shape.

Words and timings
Imean,IdidbuytheAndroid10foldable,sorry,9foldable.Anditwasverysimilar,verybeautifulscreenwhenyouopeneditupandithadfourscreensalltogether,foursides.Anditworks.Ijust,youknow,Idon'tthinkIhaveaneed.Idon'tthinkitservesaneedforme.I'vegotaniPadandI'vegotaphone.Ifitreplacedboth,maybeI'dthinkaboutit,butit'stoobig.It'saweirdshape.

Andrew Keen

You haven't physically seen it yet.

Words and timings
Youhaven'tphysicallyseenityet.

Keith Teare

Well, I've seen humans with hands holding it so I can see it.

Words and timings
Well,I'veseenhumanswithhandsholdingitsoIcanseeit.

Andrew Keen

Well, we'll see. I mean, do you agree with Thompson that Apple's still basically missing an AI strategy? It's still amazing that they even use the word Siri. I mean, I would have thought that that would have... Been eliminated. They would have come up with a new concept, a new name, a new set of languages to describe what they're trying to do.

Words and timings
Well,we'llsee.Imean,doyouagreewithThompsonthatApple'sstillbasicallymissinganAIstrategy?It'sstillamazingthattheyevenusethewordSiri.Imean,Iwouldhavethoughtthatthatwouldhave...Beeneliminated.Theywouldhavecomeupwithanewconcept,anewname,anewsetoflanguagestodescribewhatthey'retryingtodo.

Keith Teare

Well, it's the same as Amazon. They still have Alexa.

Words and timings
Well,it'sthesameasAmazon.TheystillhaveAlexa.

Andrew Keen

Yeah, but Alexa is not core to Amazon's business, whereas Siri and AI for Apple is.

Words and timings
Yeah,butAlexaisnotcoretoAmazon'sbusiness,whereasSiriandAIforAppleis.

Keith Teare

Look, I will say this. I've been running the new OS since the developer conference in June. It is way better, and it does more. And it doesn't rely on canned answers like Siri used to. It actually can, you know, think in quotes. So it is a lot better. What Apple is lacking is what, weirdly enough, Facebook did this week. Facebook released Muse. Muse is their version of OpenClaw or GrokBot, which is a full agent with a virtual machine Able to work on any task, including accessing all the files on your laptop or your desktop. Very powerful. And is probably the primitive, that is to say the base case of what the future looks like, where everyone on earth has access to, in quotes, super intelligence that is isolated from everyone else's and serves only them. It appears to be where everything's going. OpenAI offers that now. Antropic offers that. Grokbot offers it now. Facebook offers it. It's standardized. And so Apple doesn't offer that. Apple is bolting on AI use cases to existing apps and stop short of giving you an agent that you control.

Words and timings
Look,Iwillsaythis.I'vebeenrunningthenewOSsincethedeveloperconferenceinJune.Itiswaybetter,anditdoesmore.Anditdoesn'trelyoncannedanswerslikeSiriusedto.Itactuallycan,youknow,thinkinquotes.Soitisalotbetter.WhatAppleislackingiswhat,weirdlyenough,Facebookdidthisweek.FacebookreleasedMuse.MuseistheirversionofOpenClaworGrokBot,whichisafullagentwithavirtualmachineAbletoworkonanytask,includingaccessingallthefilesonyourlaptoporyourdesktop.Verypowerful.Andisprobablytheprimitive,thatistosaythebasecaseofwhatthefuturelookslike,whereeveryoneonearthhasaccessto,inquotes,superintelligencethatisisolatedfromeveryoneelse'sandservesonlythem.Itappearstobewhereeverything'sgoing.OpenAIoffersthatnow.Antropicoffersthat.Grokbotoffersitnow.Facebookoffersit.It'sstandardized.AndsoAppledoesn'tofferthat.AppleisboltingonAIusecasestoexistingappsandstopshortofgivingyouanagentthatyoucontrol.

Andrew Keen

Yeah, it comes back to your conversation about open source. And of course, ironically, or for better or worse, Facebook, most people don't trust Facebook, certainly Zuckerberg, but they are committed to open source because they're not in the Altman, Musk, Amidai camps. It's interesting that I'm sure Mark Zuckerberg isn't going to be calling for an AI slowdown, or maybe he's calling for a slowdown on them, but not on open source. So, yeah, and of course, Apple has always been a walled garden. They're dependent on that, so they're not going to be sympathetic.

Words and timings
Yeah,itcomesbacktoyourconversationaboutopensource.Andofcourse,ironically,orforbetterorworse,Facebook,mostpeopledon'ttrustFacebook,certainlyZuckerberg,buttheyarecommittedtoopensourcebecausethey'renotintheAltman,Musk,Amidaicamps.It'sinterestingthatI'msureMarkZuckerbergisn'tgoingtobecallingforanAIslowdown,ormaybehe'scallingforaslowdownonthem,butnotonopensource.So,yeah,andofcourse,Applehasalwaysbeenawalledgarden.They'redependentonthat,sothey'renotgoingtobesympathetic.

Keith Teare

And the scale required, I mean, imagine Meta has roughly 2.7 billion unique users in a month. If each one gets a virtual machine, even if you can put 100 on a single physical machine, A hundred what? A hundred people. A hundred virtual machines on a single physical machine. You know, a virtual machine isn't an actual piece of hardware. It's a software defined machine. So you can put, let's say, a hundred of them on one physical computer if it's a big enough computer. Even doing that, you get from 2.7 billion, you reduce it by, take one zero off, you get 270 million. And take another zero off, You get 27 million. They would need 27 million physical machines to support Muse.

Words and timings
Andthescalerequired,Imean,imagineMetahasroughly2.7billionuniqueusersinamonth.Ifeachonegetsavirtualmachine,evenifyoucanput100onasinglephysicalmachine,Ahundredwhat?Ahundredpeople.Ahundredvirtualmachinesonasinglephysicalmachine.Youknow,avirtualmachineisn'tanactualpieceofhardware.It'sasoftwaredefinedmachine.Soyoucanput,let'ssay,ahundredofthemononephysicalcomputerifit'sabigenoughcomputer.Evendoingthat,yougetfrom2.7billion,youreduceitby,takeonezerooff,youget270million.Andtakeanotherzerooff,Youget27million.Theywouldneed27millionphysicalmachinestosupportMuse.

Andrew Keen

That's huge. Well, we will see much to come, much of these discussions. What isn't to come is any more Bill Draper news. He died this week, one of the fathers of Venture Capital in Silicon Valley. You have a post from his son, Tim Draper, who's been on the show. You and I know him. He was an investor in one of your companies. Was he a remarkable figure, Draper, or just another VC, Bill Draper?

Words and timings
That'shuge.Well,wewillseemuchtocome,muchofthesediscussions.Whatisn'ttocomeisanymoreBillDrapernews.Hediedthisweek,oneofthefathersofVentureCapitalinSiliconValley.Youhaveapostfromhisson,TimDraper,who'sbeenontheshow.YouandIknowhim.Hewasaninvestorinoneofyourcompanies.Washearemarkablefigure,Draper,orjustanotherVC,BillDraper?

Keith Teare

Well, he was one of the first VCs, if not the first. He's probably most well known because he was the first investor in Skype. Before his son Tim went and invested in Skype. But he was very early in that Lockheed Martin, Silicon Valley emerging era, and was a real venture capitalist in the same way that Tim is. He sought difference and contrarianism that could turn into big outcomes that no one believed in at the point of their formation, a bit like AI now. So yeah, he was a... A very important figure. And everyone knows him because he's been around for decades doing that kind of work in the most recent period out of his family office.

Words and timings
Well,hewasoneofthefirstVCs,ifnotthefirst.He'sprobablymostwellknownbecausehewasthefirstinvestorinSkype.BeforehissonTimwentandinvestedinSkype.ButhewasveryearlyinthatLockheedMartin,SiliconValleyemergingera,andwasarealventurecapitalistinthesamewaythatTimis.Hesoughtdifferenceandcontrarianismthatcouldturnintobigoutcomesthatnoonebelievedinatthepointoftheirformation,abitlikeAInow.Soyeah,hewasa...Averyimportantfigure.Andeveryoneknowshimbecausehe'sbeenaroundfordecadesdoingthatkindofworkinthemostrecentperiodoutofhisfamilyoffice.

Andrew Keen

Although the Drapers now are an aristocracy of VCs. Is there a danger of the VCs? I mean, you can't blame Bill Draper for giving his son and his grandkids opportunities. Is there a danger? Will we have an Andreessen? Family lineage or a Ben Horowitz? Is that the future of VCs?

Words and timings
AlthoughtheDrapersnowareanaristocracyofVCs.IsthereadangeroftheVCs?Imean,youcan'tblameBillDraperforgivinghissonandhisgrandkidsopportunities.Isthereadanger?WillwehaveanAndreessen?FamilylineageoraBenHorowitz?IsthatthefutureofVCs?

Keith Teare

I don't think so. But Tim does have a son who's a VC who's very good as well. And a daughter. Adam. Yeah, he's got more than one child, but Adam has trailblazed as a VC and is doing very well. Look, you can have your opinions about anyone, but I think there's no doubt that On the week of his death, we should recognize that Bill Draper had a big impact in what we now experience in Silicon Valley.

Words and timings
Idon'tthinkso.ButTimdoeshaveasonwho'saVCwho'sverygoodaswell.Andadaughter.Adam.Yeah,he'sgotmorethanonechild,butAdamhastrailblazedasaVCandisdoingverywell.Look,youcanhaveyouropinionsaboutanyone,butIthinkthere'snodoubtthatOntheweekofhisdeath,weshouldrecognizethatBillDraperhadabigimpactinwhatwenowexperienceinSiliconValley.

Andrew Keen

Well, there you have it. It might be a historic week. It might not be. It was the week where at least Altman, Musk, and Amadai agreed For a call to an AI slowdown. Keith doesn't believe in the slowdown. He's not convinced it's a major historical moment. I'm not sure that particular announcement is, but I suspect that the die is cast now in terms of what will happen with AI. I'm not sure exactly what will happen, but something will. And we will be following it, Keith, in the weeks and months to come. So have a good week, and we will talk next week. Adios.

Words and timings
Well,thereyouhaveit.Itmightbeahistoricweek.Itmightnotbe.ItwastheweekwhereatleastAltman,Musk,andAmadaiagreedForacalltoanAIslowdown.Keithdoesn'tbelieveintheslowdown.He'snotconvincedit'samajorhistoricalmoment.I'mnotsurethatparticularannouncementis,butIsuspectthatthedieiscastnowintermsofwhatwillhappenwithAI.I'mnotsureexactlywhatwillhappen,butsomethingwill.Andwewillbefollowingit,Keith,intheweeksandmonthstocome.Sohaveagoodweek,andwewilltalknextweek.Adios.