Speaker 1
everybody it is saturday may the 17th time for another
Words and timings
everybodyitissaturdaymaythe17thtimeforanother
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What is Truth?
May 17, 2025 ยท 2025 #19. Read the transcript grouped by speaker, inspect word-level timecodes, and optionally turn subtitles on for direct video playback
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Speaker 3
week review of technology with my friend Keith Teer of That Was The Week newsletter. Last week, Keith's newsletter was about who is cheating who in American universities? And this week, we're continuing on an academic theme. He asks in the newsletter, what is truth? Keith, have you become a bit of a professor these days? You have an academic background. I do. So what exactly is truth, at least according to you in this week's newsletter?
Words and timings
weekreviewoftechnologywithmyfriendKeithTeerofThatWasTheWeeknewsletter.Lastweek,Keith'snewsletterwasaboutwhoischeatingwhoinAmericanuniversities?Andthisweek,we'recontinuingonanacademictheme.Heasksinthenewsletter,whatistruth?Keith,haveyoubecomeabitofaprofessorthesedays?Youhaveanacademicbackground.Ido.Sowhatexactlyistruth,atleastaccordingtoyouinthisweek'snewsletter?
Speaker 2
Well, so it was prompted by the intense... warfare, a war of words between various advocates of points of view on the issues contained in this week's newsletter, whether it's AI or China or what's going on in venture capital. There's these very loud and sometimes quite personal wars of words that characterize the other side as lying. which of course we're super familiar with over the last few years with things like fake news. So I decided it was time for an abstraction that discusses what truth actually is and whether it is meaningful.
Words and timings
Well,soitwaspromptedbytheintense...warfare,awarofwordsbetweenvariousadvocatesofpointsofviewontheissuescontainedinthisweek'snewsletter,whetherit'sAIorChinaorwhat'sgoingoninventurecapital.There'stheseveryloudandsometimesquitepersonalwarsofwordsthatcharacterizetheothersideaslying.whichofcoursewe'resuperfamiliarwithoverthelastfewyearswiththingslikefakenews.SoIdecideditwastimeforanabstractionthatdiscusseswhattruthactuallyisandwhetheritismeaningful.
Speaker 3
Or what it isn't, perhaps.
Words and timings
Orwhatitisn't,perhaps.
Speaker 2
Or isn't. And whether it's meaningful to use truth as a measure of validity or not. And that's what the editorial's about. It basically is making the point that you can only really use the word truth in the context of facts. So truth can be, even provisionally, can be used in a scientific framing. And you can use it for, you know, the French Revolution was in 1789, true or false. But for most human discourse, you're not really discussing facts, you're discussing opinions. And certainly when you're thinking about the future and what it might be, there's no such thing as truth at all. There is only opinion.
Words and timings
Orisn't.Andwhetherit'smeaningfultousetruthasameasureofvalidityornot.Andthat'swhattheeditorial'sabout.Itbasicallyismakingthepointthatyoucanonlyreallyusethewordtruthinthecontextoffacts.Sotruthcanbe,evenprovisionally,canbeusedinascientificframing.Andyoucanuseitfor,youknow,theFrenchRevolutionwasin1789,trueorfalse.Butformosthumandiscourse,you'renotreallydiscussingfacts,you'rediscussingopinions.Andcertainlywhenyou'rethinkingaboutthefutureandwhatitmightbe,there'snosuchthingastruthatall.Thereisonlyopinion.
Speaker 3
Is this your dive into a late postmodernism, Keith? The subtitle of your editorial this week, and it's obviously borrowed from a famous phrase from Marx, who you're all too familiar with, is the point is to, you ask, what is truth? The point is to change it. Economy, politics, technology, the future. Are you suggesting that really truth is human agency? It's not about facts. It's about what we're willing to do to change the world.
Words and timings
Isthisyourdiveintoalatepostmodernism,Keith?Thesubtitleofyoureditorialthisweek,andit'sobviouslyborrowedfromafamousphrasefromMarx,whoyou'realltoofamiliarwith,isthepointisto,youask,whatistruth?Thepointistochangeit.Economy,politics,technology,thefuture.Areyousuggestingthatreallytruthishumanagency?It'snotaboutfacts.It'saboutwhatwe'rewillingtodotochangetheworld.
Speaker 2
Yes. Another way of saying the same thing is truth is created after the fact. things become true through what you choose to do and you know so you know it is true that the aristocracy in France was overthrown by a revolution but it wasn't true before it was a potential a possibility it was true the American Revolution overthrew the English reign over America, but it wasn't true before. So truth is not a word you can use about the present and the potential future. It's only really a word that belongs to describing the past.
Words and timings
Yes.Anotherwayofsayingthesamethingistruthiscreatedafterthefact.thingsbecometruethroughwhatyouchoosetodoandyouknowsoyouknowitistruethatthearistocracyinFrancewasoverthrownbyarevolutionbutitwasn'ttruebeforeitwasapotentialapossibilityitwastruetheAmericanRevolutionoverthrewtheEnglishreignoverAmerica,butitwasn'ttruebefore.Sotruthisnotawordyoucanuseaboutthepresentandthepotentialfuture.It'sonlyreallyawordthatbelongstodescribingthepast.
Speaker 3
And I wonder whether, as you say, this editorial and this week's newsletter was driven by the war of words online. It's not hard to find. All you need to do is go on X or any of the other social networks. And you see this war, people accusing everybody else of great crimes of one kind or another. I wonder whether this question of truth is so acute, so sensitive in our age of technology. One of the interesting articles that you link to this week is from Paki McCormack, Everything is Technology. And he suggests that technology is changing everything. This is a theme we often talk about in the show. So how does this connect with all the technological changes, all the drama, the disruption that you and I talk about every week on That Was The Week.
Words and timings
AndIwonderwhether,asyousay,thiseditorialandthisweek'snewsletterwasdrivenbythewarofwordsonline.It'snothardtofind.AllyouneedtodoisgoonXoranyoftheothersocialnetworks.Andyouseethiswar,peopleaccusingeverybodyelseofgreatcrimesofonekindoranother.Iwonderwhetherthisquestionoftruthissoacute,sosensitiveinourageoftechnology.OneoftheinterestingarticlesthatyoulinktothisweekisfromPakiMcCormack,EverythingisTechnology.Andhesuggeststhattechnologyischangingeverything.Thisisathemeweoftentalkaboutintheshow.Sohowdoesthisconnectwithallthetechnologicalchanges,allthedrama,thedisruptionthatyouandItalkabouteveryweekonThatWasTheWeek.
Speaker 2
Yeah, so Paki McCormick, I caught him in the editorial because he frames it very well. He makes the point that the word technology often understood as being gadgets, is actually a much bigger word. It describes the process of human ingenuity, transforming conditions and creating change. And so his title, Everything is Technology, is really a way of saying the entire evolution of human history, insofar as it creates better outcomes, is technology-driven. It doesn't mean he's removing human agency. Actually, he enshrines within the word technology the human agency of invention and operational applicability and so on. So I thought it was a good framing. Actually, when I read it, I decided to write the editorial. He can, he's responsible.
Words and timings
Yeah,soPakiMcCormick,Icaughthimintheeditorialbecauseheframesitverywell.Hemakesthepointthatthewordtechnologyoftenunderstoodasbeinggadgets,isactuallyamuchbiggerword.Itdescribestheprocessofhumaningenuity,transformingconditionsandcreatingchange.Andsohistitle,EverythingisTechnology,isreallyawayofsayingtheentireevolutionofhumanhistory,insofarasitcreatesbetteroutcomes,istechnology-driven.Itdoesn'tmeanhe'sremovinghumanagency.Actually,heenshrineswithinthewordtechnologythehumanagencyofinventionandoperationalapplicabilityandsoon.SoIthoughtitwasagoodframing.Actually,whenIreadit,Idecidedtowritetheeditorial.Hecan,he'sresponsible.
Speaker 3
It's a good piece. I mean, he talks about, and it's again, a theme we've often discussed in this show. We're still in the early stages of this current technological revolution. He talks about it in economic terms. But we're still in a very early stage when it comes to universities, when it comes to media, when it comes to every aspect of society. Is that what Paki is saying and everything is technology?
Words and timings
It'sagoodpiece.Imean,hetalksabout,andit'sagain,athemewe'veoftendiscussedinthisshow.We'restillintheearlystagesofthiscurrenttechnologicalrevolution.Hetalksaboutitineconomicterms.Butwe'restillinaveryearlystagewhenitcomestouniversities,whenitcomestomedia,whenitcomestoeveryaspectofsociety.IsthatwhatPakiissayingandeverythingistechnology?
Speaker 2
Yeah, I think the other underlying implication is that it's all accelerating, that When technology goes slow and then suddenly goes fast, we're in one of those moments where it's suddenly going fast. And last week's show on the use of AI in a university context was a great example of that. where where the status quo is having uh the rug pulled from under his feet rather rapidly and that means people are flying up in the air and and are losing their boundaries and their bounds and seeking some kind of stability right i mean every
Words and timings
Yeah,Ithinktheotherunderlyingimplicationisthatit'sallaccelerating,thatWhentechnologygoesslowandthensuddenlygoesfast,we'reinoneofthosemomentswhereit'ssuddenlygoingfast.Andlastweek'sshowontheuseofAIinauniversitycontextwasagreatexampleofthat.wherewherethestatusquoishavinguhtherugpulledfromunderhisfeetratherrapidlyandthatmeanspeopleareflyingupintheairandandarelosingtheirboundariesandtheirboundsandseekingsomekindofstabilityrightimeanevery
Speaker 3
and especially in the university and we'll come to that with our post of the week, everything that was taken for granted about universities being places of learning, they build their moats around truth and trust, is being undermined. And speed itself, I mean, you're introducing truth in a kind of relativistic way. Speed is also relative, Keith. It seemed like we were going fast in the 90s when you and I did our internet startups. These days, though, the 90s seem very quaint. in the 2040s or 30s are we going to look back at the 20s and think wow we were
Words and timings
andespeciallyintheuniversityandwe'llcometothatwithourpostoftheweek,everythingthatwastakenforgrantedaboutuniversitiesbeingplacesoflearning,theybuildtheirmoatsaroundtruthandtrust,isbeingundermined.Andspeeditself,Imean,you'reintroducingtruthinakindofrelativisticway.Speedisalsorelative,Keith.Itseemedlikeweweregoingfastinthe90swhenyouandIdidourinternetstartups.Thesedays,though,the90sseemveryquaint.inthe2040sor30sarewegoingtolookbackatthe20sandthinkwowwewere
Speaker 2
going slow then you know i think there was a moment in 1994 when things were moving as fast as they are now i can remember opening siberia cafe in london and having the first internet available to normal people and Within weeks, you know, there were dating sites, there was email became something you did in a web browser in the next period after that with Hotmail and the like. All the old assumptions were transformed very, very quickly between 94 and I'd say about 98.
Words and timings
goingslowthenyouknowithinktherewasamomentin1994whenthingsweremovingasfastastheyarenowicanrememberopeningsiberiacafeinlondonandhavingthefirstinternetavailabletonormalpeopleandWithinweeks,youknow,thereweredatingsites,therewasemailbecamesomethingyoudidinawebbrowserinthenextperiodafterthatwithHotmailandthelike.Alltheoldassumptionsweretransformedvery,veryquicklybetween94andI'dsayabout98.
Speaker 2
And it was super fast. Lots of things changed.
Words and timings
Anditwassuperfast.Lotsofthingschanged.
Speaker 3
Well, it wasn't as fast as it is today. And we didn't really have the reference point of the previous technological revolutions. And there was still a degree of uncertainty about the internet. There were a lot of internet skeptics who said it was just a dot-con and that the boom was based on nothing. Very few people, I mean... I did a show this week with a couple of academics, Emily Bender and Alex Hanna, who have this book called The AI Con, How to Fight Big Tech's Hype and Create the Future We Want. But most people don't believe that AI is really a con.
Words and timings
Well,itwasn'tasfastasitistoday.Andwedidn'treallyhavethereferencepointoftheprevioustechnologicalrevolutions.Andtherewasstilladegreeofuncertaintyabouttheinternet.Therewerealotofinternetskepticswhosaiditwasjustadot-conandthattheboomwasbasedonnothing.Veryfewpeople,Imean...Ididashowthisweekwithacoupleofacademics,EmilyBenderandAlexHanna,whohavethisbookcalledTheAICon,HowtoFightBigTech'sHypeandCreatetheFutureWeWant.Butmostpeopledon'tbelievethatAIisreallyacon.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Although that book's a great example of what I argue for, which is putting your ideas out there because unless you do that, you can't be part of the conversation. And then, you know, contesting them. I completely disagree with the title of that book. I haven't read the book, so maybe it's less contentious once you read it.
Words and timings
Yeah.Althoughthatbook'sagreatexampleofwhatIarguefor,whichisputtingyourideasouttherebecauseunlessyoudothat,youcan'tbepartoftheconversation.Andthen,youknow,contestingthem.Icompletelydisagreewiththetitleofthatbook.Ihaven'treadthebook,somaybeit'slesscontentiousonceyoureadit.
Speaker 3
It's an interesting essay, and they're an interesting couple. I mean, they're not literally a couple, but Emily Bender teaches linguistics at the University of Washington. Alex Hanna used to be at Google. He was on that team that got decimated. I remember when there was a huge Margaret, not Miller, Margaret something or other from Google. A lot of them got fired. So one comes from Google, the other from academia. So it's an interesting argument. I mean, basically, again, they're coming back to this idea of, and the subtitle of the book is how to fight big tech's hype and create the future we want. That's the real issue for me. Is this, anytime a book or an argument comes along and says, we need to create the future we want, I'm always very skeptical because who exactly are we? And what do we even do? One, and do we know if we want it? I mean, it's the old Steve Jobs argument. He said he knew our future, so we designed the iPhone. We didn't know it, and then when we saw it, we wanted it.
Words and timings
It'saninterestingessay,andthey'reaninterestingcouple.Imean,they'renotliterallyacouple,butEmilyBenderteacheslinguisticsattheUniversityofWashington.AlexHannausedtobeatGoogle.Hewasonthatteamthatgotdecimated.IrememberwhentherewasahugeMargaret,notMiller,MargaretsomethingorotherfromGoogle.Alotofthemgotfired.SoonecomesfromGoogle,theotherfromacademia.Soit'saninterestingargument.Imean,basically,again,they'recomingbacktothisideaof,andthesubtitleofthebookishowtofightbigtech'shypeandcreatethefuturewewant.That'stherealissueforme.Isthis,anytimeabookoranargumentcomesalongandsays,weneedtocreatethefuturewewant,I'malwaysveryskepticalbecausewhoexactlyarewe?Andwhatdoweevendo?One,anddoweknowifwewantit?Imean,it'stheoldSteveJobsargument.Hesaidheknewourfuture,sowedesignedtheiPhone.Wedidn'tknowit,andthenwhenwesawit,wewantedit.
Speaker 2
Well, that's the whole point. The future... the future is contested and it only exists afterwards. So right now, you use the word relativist to describe my attitude to truth, but actually I'm not being relative. I'm being pretty absolutist. I'm saying there is no truth. That doesn't mean everything could be true either. The relative argument would be everything is a little bit true and there's no truth. No, I don't agree with that. I personally believe in something And I want to make it happen. And for me, at least, that is an absolute truth. That is more like modernism, actually. It's social construction or social engineering through ideas and action. So I'm way more of a modernist than a relativist. But I acknowledge that everyone else also is. People who pretend to be relativists actually aren't. they are also absolutist in their belief that you know everything is a little bit true so the idea that that there are relativists is a a cheat it's a cheat because the relativists believe in nothing.
Words and timings
Well,that'sthewholepoint.Thefuture...thefutureiscontestedanditonlyexistsafterwards.Sorightnow,youusethewordrelativisttodescribemyattitudetotruth,butactuallyI'mnotbeingrelative.I'mbeingprettyabsolutist.I'msayingthereisnotruth.Thatdoesn'tmeaneverythingcouldbetrueeither.Therelativeargumentwouldbeeverythingisalittlebittrueandthere'snotruth.No,Idon'tagreewiththat.IpersonallybelieveinsomethingAndIwanttomakeithappen.Andforme,atleast,thatisanabsolutetruth.Thatismorelikemodernism,actually.It'ssocialconstructionorsocialengineeringthroughideasandaction.SoI'mwaymoreofamodernistthanarelativist.ButIacknowledgethateveryoneelsealsois.Peoplewhopretendtoberelativistsactuallyaren't.theyarealsoabsolutistintheirbeliefthatyouknoweverythingisalittlebittruesotheideathatthattherearerelativistsisaacheatit'sacheatbecausetherelativistsbelieveinnothing.
Speaker 3
You're introducing the C-word cheat, the cheat, Keith. We had that last week. And cheating, of course, suggests breaking the rules. Another piece that I thought was good this week is from another old friend of yours, Thomas Tonguz, who you often include, a venture capitalist. It's entitled Nobody Wants to Read Your Stuff. And it's about the way in which AI will be used inevitably to
Words and timings
You'reintroducingtheC-wordcheat,thecheat,Keith.Wehadthatlastweek.Andcheating,ofcourse,suggestsbreakingtherules.AnotherpiecethatIthoughtwasgoodthisweekisfromanotheroldfriendofyours,ThomasTonguz,whoyouofteninclude,aventurecapitalist.It'sentitledNobodyWantstoReadYourStuff.Andit'saboutthewayinwhichAIwillbeusedinevitablyto
Speaker 3
I don't know what, to generalize, to make conclusions about what we're saying. In other words, people are watching this, they're going to listen to you and I droning on for 35 minutes, but they really probably only want 30 seconds worth. And I think that's Tongass's point. And that's where he sees the evolution of, I don't know whether it's the network, the internet, apps, all will be designed to summarize, essentially. And he writes about that in a technical way, but I think I understood what he was saying.
Words and timings
Idon'tknowwhat,togeneralize,tomakeconclusionsaboutwhatwe'resaying.Inotherwords,peoplearewatchingthis,they'regoingtolistentoyouandIdroningonfor35minutes,buttheyreallyprobablyonlywant30secondsworth.AndIthinkthat'sTongass'spoint.Andthat'swhereheseestheevolutionof,Idon'tknowwhetherit'sthenetwork,theinternet,apps,allwillbedesignedtosummarize,essentially.Andhewritesaboutthatinatechnicalway,butIthinkIunderstoodwhathewassaying.
Speaker 2
Well, what he's done is something quite interesting, which is another point buried inside his point. On his homepage, he's put this box where you can ask a question and his AI will generate a post to answer your question, drawing on his body of work. going back years.
Words and timings
Well,whathe'sdoneissomethingquiteinteresting,whichisanotherpointburiedinsidehispoint.Onhishomepage,he'sputthisboxwhereyoucanaskaquestionandhisAIwillgenerateaposttoansweryourquestion,drawingonhisbodyofwork.goingbackyears.
Speaker 3
Yeah, which is a fascinating idea, which essentially means that he's creating his own personalized open AI, chat GPT.
Words and timings
Yeah,whichisafascinatingidea,whichessentiallymeansthathe'screatinghisownpersonalizedopenAI,chatGPT.
Speaker 2
Yeah, and that's what's called inference learning and reinforced learning, and RAG, which is retrieval augmented, generation. So basically, you give the AI a walled garden of content that it is only allowed to draw on in order to make answers.
Words and timings
Yeah,andthat'swhat'scalledinferencelearningandreinforcedlearning,andRAG,whichisretrievalaugmented,generation.Sobasically,yougivetheAIawalledgardenofcontentthatitisonlyallowedtodrawoninordertomakeanswers.
Speaker 3
I mean, the real challenge with that is I can imagine Putting that together isn't hard from the final product, but it's aggregating everything you've said. Where do you, I mean, it's one thing if you've been writing a blog for years, someone like Dave Weiner might be able to do that. But if you're like myself and I've written books and some social media and articles, I have no idea of actually how to aggregate all that content.
Words and timings
Imean,therealchallengewiththatisIcanimaginePuttingthattogetherisn'thardfromthefinalproduct,butit'saggregatingeverythingyou'vesaid.Wheredoyou,Imean,it'sonethingifyou'vebeenwritingablogforyears,someonelikeDaveWeinermightbeabletodothat.Butifyou'relikemyselfandI'vewrittenbooksandsomesocialmediaandarticles,Ihavenoideaofactuallyhowtoaggregateallthatcontent.
Speaker 2
Well, so I'll give you three bullet points. Number one, install an app called Cursor. Number two, put all the content you want. When you say install, install it where? On your Mac, just as an app, like any app. Yeah. Load cursor up as an app. Create a folder on your Mac with all the content you want the AI to know about. It could be your whole history or whatever you want, including links. It doesn't have to be documents. And then say to Cursor, build me an AI using, let's say, OpenAI or Claude, it doesn't matter which one, that only draws on this folder and these links. And give me a question interface and answer any question only drawing on those documents. And Cursor will build you something called a vector database. It will build a web front end with a question box and you can tell it to put it on and let's say a server on Amazon and it will run it and it will have a URL and you will then give that URL to people and they can now ask Andrew Keane questions. The whole process might take a day.
Words and timings
Well,soI'llgiveyouthreebulletpoints.Numberone,installanappcalledCursor.Numbertwo,putallthecontentyouwant.Whenyousayinstall,installitwhere?OnyourMac,justasanapp,likeanyapp.Yeah.Loadcursorupasanapp.CreateafolderonyourMacwithallthecontentyouwanttheAItoknowabout.Itcouldbeyourwholehistoryorwhateveryouwant,includinglinks.Itdoesn'thavetobedocuments.AndthensaytoCursor,buildmeanAIusing,let'ssay,OpenAIorClaude,itdoesn'tmatterwhichone,thatonlydrawsonthisfolderandtheselinks.Andgivemeaquestioninterfaceandansweranyquestiononlydrawingonthosedocuments.AndCursorwillbuildyousomethingcalledavectordatabase.Itwillbuildawebfrontendwithaquestionboxandyoucantellittoputitonandlet'ssayaserveronAmazonanditwillrunitanditwillhaveaURLandyouwillthengivethatURLtopeopleandtheycannowaskAndrewKeanequestions.Thewholeprocessmighttakeaday.
Speaker 3
By a day of your time, I'm sure it would take longer than my time. And this kind of contradicts Keith. I had a guy on my show, Paul Voss, who was one of the people who came up with the term AGI, Artificial General Intelligence, about 20 years ago. He believes that generative AI, LLMs, are ultimately flawed because they're not able to remember. Does that... resonate with you i mean you're talking about the cursor app as setting up as a way of of remembering everything we write or say but he says that within llms there's
Words and timings
Byadayofyourtime,I'msureitwouldtakelongerthanmytime.AndthiskindofcontradictsKeith.Ihadaguyonmyshow,PaulVoss,whowasoneofthepeoplewhocameupwiththetermAGI,ArtificialGeneralIntelligence,about20yearsago.HebelievesthatgenerativeAI,LLMs,areultimatelyflawedbecausethey'renotabletoremember.Doesthat...resonatewithyouimeanyou'retalkingaboutthecursorappassettingupasawayofofrememberingeverythingwewriteorsaybuthesaysthatwithinllmsthere's
Speaker 2
no memory well look i think there is a good argument that llms are a dead end but his reason is wrong, just factually wrong. So there is a truth in this context. It's entirely possible to give an LLM a memory. All you have to do is save every conversation to, I call it a folder, but basically into a vector database. But it requires that piece of action. Yeah, but you can code that as an automatic. You don't have to do anything new. You just build in memory. And OpenAI just launched that. OpenAI now remembers everything it knows about you. including every conversation he's ever had with you. And this week, Sam Altman was interviewed by, I think, I can't remember who he was by, but he made the point that his ideal future is one where everyone has a personalized open AI that truly knows everything about you that you want it to know. It's up to you how much. and can serve as, you know, an expert on you, if you will. So I think he's wrong on the memory thing. The reason why it might be... People should watch the Voss interview.
Words and timings
nomemorywelllookithinkthereisagoodargumentthatllmsareadeadendbuthisreasoniswrong,justfactuallywrong.Sothereisatruthinthiscontext.It'sentirelypossibletogiveanLLMamemory.Allyouhavetodoissaveeveryconversationto,Icallitafolder,butbasicallyintoavectordatabase.Butitrequiresthatpieceofaction.Yeah,butyoucancodethatasanautomatic.Youdon'thavetodoanythingnew.Youjustbuildinmemory.AndOpenAIjustlaunchedthat.OpenAInowrememberseverythingitknowsaboutyou.includingeveryconversationhe'severhadwithyou.Andthisweek,SamAltmanwasinterviewedby,Ithink,Ican'trememberwhohewasby,buthemadethepointthathisidealfutureisonewhereeveryonehasapersonalizedopenAIthattrulyknowseverythingaboutyouthatyouwantittoknow.It'suptoyouhowmuch.andcanserveas,youknow,anexpertonyou,ifyouwill.SoIthinkhe'swrongonthememorything.Thereasonwhyitmightbe...PeopleshouldwatchtheVossinterview.
Speaker 3
We made it our interview of the week for That Was The Week. Yeah. But, yeah, it's interesting. And, of course, Sam Altman himself is a controversial figure. Certainly... There are lots of changes this week. There was an interesting piece you linked to from Ali Partaby, a political activist, on his plans to re-imagine democracy. It's not just re-imagining the university, re-imagining corporations, but democracy itself. He has this new plan called Sway, this new project, turning social support into electoral influence. Why did you include the part of EPS in his Sway? I mean, we always hear about these projects of reinventing democracy and nothing ever happens.
Words and timings
WemadeitourinterviewoftheweekforThatWasTheWeek.Yeah.But,yeah,it'sinteresting.And,ofcourse,SamAltmanhimselfisacontroversialfigure.Certainly...Therearelotsofchangesthisweek.TherewasaninterestingpieceyoulinkedtofromAliPartaby,apoliticalactivist,onhisplanstore-imaginedemocracy.It'snotjustre-imaginingtheuniversity,re-imaginingcorporations,butdemocracyitself.HehasthisnewplancalledSway,thisnewproject,turningsocialsupportintoelectoralinfluence.WhydidyouincludethepartofEPSinhisSway?Imean,wealwayshearabouttheseprojectsofreinventingdemocracyandnothingeverhappens.
Speaker 2
so i i include it firstly i know ali personally and his brother they were the founders of link share back in the 90s which was one of the first companies to understand the value of a link on the internet so since then he's gone on to do all kinds of great things like women in code for example he's involved in him and his brother are both Persian and that gives them an insight into how important democracy is and This is the first time I've seen somebody write what I think is common sense. He basically writes about how technology can turn democracy into a truer demos, where people have real power. to control outcomes, either granular outcomes or broad societal outcomes through using tech as a voting machine, if you will.
Words and timings
soiiincludeitfirstlyiknowalipersonallyandhisbrothertheywerethefoundersoflinksharebackinthe90swhichwasoneofthefirstcompaniestounderstandthevalueofalinkontheinternetsosincethenhe'sgoneontodoallkindsofgreatthingslikewomenincodeforexamplehe'sinvolvedinhimandhisbrotherarebothPersianandthatgivesthemaninsightintohowimportantdemocracyisandThisisthefirsttimeI'veseensomebodywritewhatIthinkiscommonsense.Hebasicallywritesabouthowtechnologycanturndemocracyintoatruerdemos,wherepeoplehaverealpower.tocontroloutcomes,eithergranularoutcomesorbroadsocietaloutcomesthroughusingtechasavotingmachine,ifyouwill.
Speaker 3
Yeah, but we've heard about these, Keith, for years. They never, ever happen. Most people just aren't interested. You have a group of activists who always... champion these things, start them. And then my sense is that most people just are not interested in these kinds of participatory models of democracy. For better or worse, I'm not saying it's something we should celebrate.
Words and timings
Yeah,butwe'veheardaboutthese,Keith,foryears.Theynever,everhappen.Mostpeoplejustaren'tinterested.Youhaveagroupofactivistswhoalways...championthesethings,startthem.Andthenmysenseisthatmostpeoplejustarenotinterestedinthesekindsofparticipatorymodelsofdemocracy.Forbetterorworse,I'mnotsayingit'ssomethingweshouldcelebrate.
Speaker 2
No, I think historically you're right. But it isn't inevitable that that continues to be the case. I think that the easier it is to have a voice, the more likely people will choose to use their voice. And to be honest, participating in democracy up until now in human history involves a lot of effort that takes you out of your other life. You know, you have to join political parties, you have to get involved locally, you have to, you know, do fundraisers, campaigns. So being involved in democracy above and beyond simply voting, and even voting is too much of an effort for about 30% of the population in the US, sometimes more than 30%. So I think his point is, if you can make it easy to have a voice, more people will. I think that is not a binary thing. It's not as if everyone will. But let's say that voting was as simple as ticking a box on a phone. I think you might be able to make it mandatory to vote, but also include an abstention.
Words and timings
No,Ithinkhistoricallyyou'reright.Butitisn'tinevitablethatthatcontinuestobethecase.Ithinkthattheeasieritistohaveavoice,themorelikelypeoplewillchoosetousetheirvoice.Andtobehonest,participatingindemocracyupuntilnowinhumanhistoryinvolvesalotofeffortthattakesyououtofyourotherlife.Youknow,youhavetojoinpoliticalparties,youhavetogetinvolvedlocally,youhaveto,youknow,dofundraisers,campaigns.Sobeinginvolvedindemocracyaboveandbeyondsimplyvoting,andevenvotingistoomuchofaneffortforabout30%ofthepopulationintheUS,sometimesmorethan30%.SoIthinkhispointis,ifyoucanmakeiteasytohaveavoice,morepeoplewill.Ithinkthatisnotabinarything.It'snotasifeveryonewill.Butlet'ssaythatvotingwasassimpleastickingaboxonaphone.Ithinkyoumightbeabletomakeitmandatorytovote,butalsoincludeanabstention.
Speaker 3
Yeah, and you didn't include this because I forgot to send it to you, but Noema magazine, which is a good online publication, has an interesting piece by Nathan Gardals, its editor, about... California introducing an online platform that directly links the public with the institutions of self-government. So again, a story that we will come back to. Another story that you've been talking about that's interesting is reiterated by Yasha Munk of Persuasion, The Great Divergence. He reminds everyone and he argues that it's rather controversial, I don't quite know why, that the US is becoming increasingly wealthier than Europe. He has a chart explaining it, comparing US and Germany in the United Kingdom. Why is this so controversial, Keith? Monk says every time he writes something about it, he gets all this hate mail.
Words and timings
Yeah,andyoudidn'tincludethisbecauseIforgottosendittoyou,butNoemamagazine,whichisagoodonlinepublication,hasaninterestingpiecebyNathanGardals,itseditor,about...Californiaintroducinganonlineplatformthatdirectlylinksthepublicwiththeinstitutionsofself-government.Soagain,astorythatwewillcomebackto.Anotherstorythatyou'vebeentalkingaboutthat'sinterestingisreiteratedbyYashaMunkofPersuasion,TheGreatDivergence.Heremindseveryoneandhearguesthatit'srathercontroversial,Idon'tquiteknowwhy,thattheUSisbecomingincreasinglywealthierthanEurope.Hehasachartexplainingit,comparingUSandGermanyintheUnitedKingdom.Whyisthissocontroversial,Keith?Monksayseverytimehewritessomethingaboutit,hegetsallthishatemail.
Speaker 2
Well, I think there's an emotional reason why, and then there's a more scientific reason why. The emotional reason is just that Europeans hate to be told that they're poor. Because that model doesn't work or their model doesn't work. And, you know, earlier in the year, one of that was the weeks was about a speech I made in Brussels, which is more or less making the same point that he makes. And there's no doubt that he's right. But the emotional reaction I got afterwards from Europeans is, why do you hate us so much? They don't really want to deal with it. And it's really to do with European GDP per capita. That's the factual piece. GDP per capita is a measure of a society's wealth. Now, here's why one of the pushbacks from Europe is a little bit fairer.
Words and timings
Well,Ithinkthere'sanemotionalreasonwhy,andthenthere'samorescientificreasonwhy.TheemotionalreasonisjustthatEuropeanshatetobetoldthatthey'repoor.Becausethatmodeldoesn'tworkortheirmodeldoesn'twork.And,youknow,earlierintheyear,oneofthatwastheweekswasaboutaspeechImadeinBrussels,whichismoreorlessmakingthesamepointthathemakes.Andthere'snodoubtthathe'sright.ButtheemotionalreactionIgotafterwardsfromEuropeansis,whydoyouhateussomuch?Theydon'treallywanttodealwithit.Andit'sreallytodowithEuropeanGDPpercapita.That'sthefactualpiece.GDPpercapitaisameasureofasociety'swealth.Now,here'swhyoneofthepushbacksfromEuropeisalittlebitfairer.
Speaker 2
GDP can be measured in absolute dollars, or it can be measured in what you can buy with the dollars. It's called purchasing power parity. By purchasing power parity, China is easily the richest nation on earth now, but America is the richest measured by absolute dollars. And Europe, which has only got roughly a third of the GDP per capita of the US now, a third, can you believe that? you know, $85,000 a year versus like 30-something. And the argument is that that 30-something buys a better life than the $85,000.
Words and timings
GDPcanbemeasuredinabsolutedollars,oritcanbemeasuredinwhatyoucanbuywiththedollars.It'scalledpurchasingpowerparity.Bypurchasingpowerparity,Chinaiseasilytherichestnationonearthnow,butAmericaistherichestmeasuredbyabsolutedollars.AndEurope,whichhasonlygotroughlyathirdoftheGDPpercapitaoftheUSnow,athird,canyoubelievethat?youknow,$85,000ayearversuslike30-something.Andtheargumentisthatthat30-somethingbuysabetterlifethanthe$85,000.
Speaker 3
Yeah, and Yasha deals with that, and he says that actually isn't true. Yeah. Yeah, so it's an interesting piece. Monk always has... Good stuff to talk about. Meanwhile, speaking of China and Europe, you link with a piece from Simon Cooper, old friend of mine, he's been on my show lots of times, about how China is catching up with Silicon Valley. What does Cooper say about this? And the subtitle, it's an FT, one of his columns, US tech moguls used to see China as a production hub, now some are buying slices of its technological future. So is... China, the new Silicon Valley, Keith? We've talked about this a lot too.
Words and timings
Yeah,andYashadealswiththat,andhesaysthatactuallyisn'ttrue.Yeah.Yeah,soit'saninterestingpiece.Monkalwayshas...Goodstufftotalkabout.Meanwhile,speakingofChinaandEurope,youlinkwithapiecefromSimonCooper,oldfriendofmine,he'sbeenonmyshowlotsoftimes,abouthowChinaiscatchingupwithSiliconValley.WhatdoesCoopersayaboutthis?Andthesubtitle,it'sanFT,oneofhiscolumns,UStechmogulsusedtoseeChinaasaproductionhub,nowsomearebuyingslicesofitstechnologicalfuture.Sois...China,thenewSiliconValley,Keith?We'vetalkedaboutthisalottoo.
Speaker 2
It isn't the new Silicon Valley, but it is increasingly capable of innovation from idea to execution, all the way through to economic impact. And the poster child for that is electronic vehicles, where China is arguably ahead of Tesla now. Some of the companies are doing things that even Tesla isn't doing. Yeah,
Words and timings
Itisn'tthenewSiliconValley,butitisincreasinglycapableofinnovationfromideatoexecution,allthewaythroughtoeconomicimpact.Andtheposterchildforthatiselectronicvehicles,whereChinaisarguablyaheadofTeslanow.SomeofthecompaniesaredoingthingsthatevenTeslaisn'tdoing.Yeah,
Speaker 3
and in terms of Europe, I'm guessing that it's the European car companies that are most vulnerable ultimately to this Chinese innovation, especially in Germany.
Words and timings
andintermsofEurope,I'mguessingthatit'stheEuropeancarcompaniesthataremostvulnerableultimatelytothisChineseinnovation,especiallyinGermany.
Speaker 2
Now, it does go back to Paki McCormick's point, which is that old economies, in order to be advanced, have to leapfrog the old infrastructure that they're sitting on. It's way easier for a new economy to do that because there's nothing old to replace. So they start at an advantage. And China is that. China is taking advantage of a fundamental law of capitalism, ironically, because capitalism rewards productivity through costs being lowered and therefore prices being able to be lowered without declining quality. and we've seen it before in Japan and South Korea after World War II and even Germany to an extent, well, China's the new beneficiary of being the latest to innovate. And therefore there's nothing magical or particularly Chinese about this success. It is built into capitalism itself that the latest to innovate will out-compete people who innovated earlier.
Words and timings
Now,itdoesgobacktoPakiMcCormick'spoint,whichisthatoldeconomies,inordertobeadvanced,havetoleapfrogtheoldinfrastructurethatthey'resittingon.It'swayeasierforaneweconomytodothatbecausethere'snothingoldtoreplace.Sotheystartatanadvantage.AndChinaisthat.Chinaistakingadvantageofafundamentallawofcapitalism,ironically,becausecapitalismrewardsproductivitythroughcostsbeingloweredandthereforepricesbeingabletobeloweredwithoutdecliningquality.andwe'veseenitbeforeinJapanandSouthKoreaafterWorldWarIIandevenGermanytoanextent,well,China'sthenewbeneficiaryofbeingthelatesttoinnovate.Andthereforethere'snothingmagicalorparticularlyChineseaboutthissuccess.Itisbuiltintocapitalismitselfthatthelatesttoinnovatewillout-competepeoplewhoinnovatedearlier.
Speaker 3
So some things, though, aren't changing. Another piece that you linked to, which I was amazed with, actually, is by John Herman on Intelligence, that Netflix is going all in on ads. I'm not a big personal fan of Netflix. I don't like using the product, but I've always thought that The company itself is a kind of canary in the coal mine. Is Netflix returning to ads in terms of its business model, which seems to be a return to Web 2.0?
Words and timings
Sosomethings,though,aren'tchanging.Anotherpiecethatyoulinkedto,whichIwasamazedwith,actually,isbyJohnHermanonIntelligence,thatNetflixisgoingallinonads.I'mnotabigpersonalfanofNetflix.Idon'tlikeusingtheproduct,butI'vealwaysthoughtthatThecompanyitselfisakindofcanaryinthecoalmine.IsNetflixreturningtoadsintermsofitsbusinessmodel,whichseemstobeareturntoWeb2.0?
Speaker 2
Yes and no. Netflix's core business is still a subscription business with no ads. And most of its growth is accounted for by geographical expansion of that model. However, there's a whole lot of people that don't want to pay the every increasing monthly fee to Netflix, it keeps going up twice a year, they put the price up. So what's happening is they're bifurcating their audience into two groups, people who can afford the subscription for no ads, and then everyone else. They locked down their password system so that you can't piggyback on someone else's password anymore. Yeah, which is what all our kids do all the time, of course. Right. And then they opened up an advertising layer which is much cheaper And it's grown to nearly 100 million people now. And so they're very cleverly, and by the way, they're now starting to produce live TV into that, starting with award shows, but they've also done some sport. So I think Netflix's roadmap involves live, advertising supported, and subscription.
Words and timings
Yesandno.Netflix'scorebusinessisstillasubscriptionbusinesswithnoads.Andmostofitsgrowthisaccountedforbygeographicalexpansionofthatmodel.However,there'sawholelotofpeoplethatdon'twanttopaytheeveryincreasingmonthlyfeetoNetflix,itkeepsgoinguptwiceayear,theyputthepriceup.Sowhat'shappeningisthey'rebifurcatingtheiraudienceintotwogroups,peoplewhocanaffordthesubscriptionfornoads,andtheneveryoneelse.Theylockeddowntheirpasswordsystemsothatyoucan'tpiggybackonsomeoneelse'spasswordanymore.Yeah,whichiswhatallourkidsdoallthetime,ofcourse.Right.AndthentheyopenedupanadvertisinglayerwhichismuchcheaperAndit'sgrowntonearly100millionpeoplenow.Andsothey'reverycleverly,andbytheway,they'renowstartingtoproduceliveTVintothat,startingwithawardshows,butthey'vealsodonesomesport.SoIthinkNetflix'sroadmapinvolveslive,advertisingsupported,andsubscription.
Speaker 3
Rather like YouTube in a way. So I'm guessing that Netflix and YouTube are increasingly... directly competing.
Words and timings
RatherlikeYouTubeinaway.SoI'mguessingthatNetflixandYouTubeareincreasingly...directlycompeting.
Speaker 2
Yeah. At Google this week, in an interview, Sundar said his biggest regret in his period there is not buying Netflix when he had the chance. Because Netflix is... Wow, you didn't link that article. What did he say? When did he have the chance of buying Netflix? It'll be in next week because I only saw it yesterday and I'd already done the newsletter. But he was interviewed by... Freiburg from the All In podcast. And that was part of the interview. The regulators, they would have a field day.
Words and timings
Yeah.AtGooglethisweek,inaninterview,SundarsaidhisbiggestregretinhisperiodthereisnotbuyingNetflixwhenhehadthechance.BecauseNetflixis...Wow,youdidn'tlinkthatarticle.Whatdidhesay?WhendidhehavethechanceofbuyingNetflix?It'llbeinnextweekbecauseIonlysawityesterdayandI'dalreadydonethenewsletter.Buthewasinterviewedby...FreiburgfromtheAllInpodcast.Andthatwaspartoftheinterview.Theregulators,theywouldhaveafieldday.
Speaker 3
If Google owned both Netflix and YouTube, then we would expect even more of a breakup. So that's interesting.
Words and timings
IfGoogleownedbothNetflixandYouTube,thenwewouldexpectevenmoreofabreakup.Sothat'sinteresting.
Speaker 2
I didn't realize that. Honestly, I'm shocked. I'm shocked that the people who could buy Netflix would have been Apple and Google and maybe Amazon. I'm pretty shocked that one of them didn't if they were prepared to sell.
Words and timings
Ididn'trealizethat.Honestly,I'mshocked.I'mshockedthatthepeoplewhocouldbuyNetflixwouldhavebeenAppleandGoogleandmaybeAmazon.I'mprettyshockedthatoneofthemdidn'tiftheywerepreparedtosell.
Speaker 3
What years are we talking about? I mean, recently? I actually don't know because I only saw the headline. Okay, well, we'll come to that next week or in a couple of weeks. Meanwhile, some companies are refining their product. Airbnb's new app. I've always been impressed with Airbnb in terms of the customer experience. They do a great job. Is this new app on Airbnb, is it a revolution, Keith, or just a little bit of an improvement? Yeah.
Words and timings
Whatyearsarewetalkingabout?Imean,recently?Iactuallydon'tknowbecauseIonlysawtheheadline.Okay,well,we'llcometothatnextweekorinacoupleofweeks.Meanwhile,somecompaniesarerefiningtheirproduct.Airbnb'snewapp.I'vealwaysbeenimpressedwithAirbnbintermsofthecustomerexperience.Theydoagreatjob.IsthisnewapponAirbnb,isitarevolution,Keith,orjustalittlebitofanimprovement?Yeah.
Speaker 2
So Thompson in Stratechery writes about it. And it's interesting, it's been quite controversial, this product launch. What they actually did is they've increased from just Airbnb bookings. They've added services and then experiences. They've always had experiences, but now they've upgraded it.
Words and timings
SoThompsoninStratecherywritesaboutit.Andit'sinteresting,it'sbeenquitecontroversial,thisproductlaunch.Whattheyactuallydidisthey'veincreasedfromjustAirbnbbookings.They'veaddedservicesandthenexperiences.They'vealwayshadexperiences,butnowthey'veupgradedit.
Speaker 3
So you can get massages when you go and stay in an Airbnb.
Words and timings
SoyoucangetmassageswhenyougoandstayinanAirbnb.
Speaker 2
Yeah, but also you like multi-day experiences like going in the desert or whatever, whatever. And they're curating the experiences and they're even paying to create some experiences that they manage and own. So they're upgrading the whole what can you do when you're there part. Services is the low level thing where third parties are available to you and experiences is where they're curating them. And it's pretty well done, I would say. But the controversy has been a lot of people pushing back saying they're going to kill their core business by adding these other two elements. And it's become quite a debate. Stratechri calls it founder mode.
Words and timings
Yeah,butalsoyoulikemulti-dayexperienceslikegoinginthedesertorwhatever,whatever.Andthey'recuratingtheexperiencesandthey'reevenpayingtocreatesomeexperiencesthattheymanageandown.Sothey'reupgradingthewholewhatcanyoudowhenyou'retherepart.Servicesisthelowlevelthingwherethirdpartiesareavailabletoyouandexperiencesiswherethey'recuratingthem.Andit'sprettywelldone,Iwouldsay.Butthecontroversyhasbeenalotofpeoplepushingbacksayingthey'regoingtokilltheircorebusinessbyaddingtheseothertwoelements.Andit'sbecomequiteadebate.Stratechricallsitfoundermode.
Speaker 3
So a kind of cannibalism. But why would it undermine their core business?
Words and timings
Soakindofcannibalism.Butwhywoulditunderminetheircorebusiness?
Speaker 2
I don't get it. I don't think it would. But this is a good example of contested futures. And they're not being a truth because... There are many opinions and quite loudly expressed and strongly held. Well,
Words and timings
Idon'tgetit.Idon'tthinkitwould.Butthisisagoodexampleofcontestedfutures.Andthey'renotbeingatruthbecause...Therearemanyopinionsandquiteloudlyexpressedandstronglyheld.Well,
Speaker 3
I think what we can say for sure is that companies like Netflix and Airbnb, which aren't really big tech, are the next layer down. For them to survive, they have to continually reinvent themselves. They can't just stand still.
Words and timings
IthinkwhatwecansayforsureisthatcompanieslikeNetflixandAirbnb,whicharen'treallybigtech,arethenextlayerdown.Forthemtosurvive,theyhavetocontinuallyreinventthemselves.Theycan'tjuststandstill.
Speaker 2
I think that's true of every tech business, actually. I look at Microsoft and Google right now. They're all in a process of rebirth to one degree or another.
Words and timings
Ithinkthat'strueofeverytechbusiness,actually.IlookatMicrosoftandGooglerightnow.They'reallinaprocessofrebirthtoonedegreeoranother.
Speaker 3
It's the old Bob Dylan song, if you... Don't rebirth yourself, you die. Finally, we have a network moment from the movie on your post of the week. An academic, unnamed, I'm sure we could find their name if we looked hard enough, who quit online in real time because of AI. Tell us about this, Keith.
Words and timings
It'stheoldBobDylansong,ifyou...Don'trebirthyourself,youdie.Finally,wehaveanetworkmomentfromthemovieonyourpostoftheweek.Anacademic,unnamed,I'msurewecouldfindtheirnameifwelookedhardenough,whoquitonlineinrealtimebecauseofAI.Tellusaboutthis,Keith.
Speaker 2
Well, this is a bit of a throwback to last week's newsletter.
Words and timings
Well,thisisabitofathrowbacktolastweek'snewsletter.
Speaker 3
The universities and their crisis, who's cheating who?
Words and timings
Theuniversitiesandtheircrisis,who'scheatingwho?
Speaker 2
An academic who realized that everyone was cheating, essentially, right? Yeah, he found a website put up by who knows who, but one of the students, where they had recorded every lecture, done summaries of lectures using some kind of AI, and pictures of the slides and, you know, canned responses to essay questions. Which you approve of.
Words and timings
Anacademicwhorealizedthateveryonewascheating,essentially,right?Yeah,hefoundawebsiteputupbywhoknowswho,butoneofthestudents,wheretheyhadrecordedeverylecture,donesummariesoflecturesusingsomekindofAI,andpicturesoftheslidesand,youknow,cannedresponsestoessayquestions.Whichyouapproveof.
Speaker 3
I assume you approve of all this. It shows innovation, shows entrepreneurialism, like that NYU student who did the same thing. A Columbia student who got thrown out of the university and then started a website called Cheating.
Words and timings
Iassumeyouapproveofallthis.Itshowsinnovation,showsentrepreneurialism,likethatNYUstudentwhodidthesamething.AColumbiastudentwhogotthrownoutoftheuniversityandthenstartedawebsitecalledCheating.
Speaker 2
Yeah, so... Basically, this professor shows that he's discovered this site in front of the class and starts...
Words and timings
Yeah,so...Basically,thisprofessorshowsthathe'sdiscoveredthissiteinfrontoftheclassandstarts...
Speaker 3
Yeah, and he said, and I'm quoting apparently from your post of the week from somebody called Stu, fuck this class, fuck the entire university, fuck the job. It sounds like a... He literally resigned his job in front of the class. It's the network movie where the TV presenter quit on... While he was on television, this is happening on, I guess it's YouTube, is it, Keith? This is on X. On X, Instagram, all these places.
Words and timings
Yeah,andhesaid,andI'mquotingapparentlyfromyourpostoftheweekfromsomebodycalledStu,fuckthisclass,fucktheentireuniversity,fuckthejob.Itsoundslikea...Heliterallyresignedhisjobinfrontoftheclass.It'sthenetworkmoviewheretheTVpresenterquiton...Whilehewasontelevision,thisishappeningon,Iguessit'sYouTube,isit,Keith?ThisisonX.OnX,Instagram,alltheseplaces.
Speaker 2
But now there is two things to say about this. The first is a lot of the people in the responses think it's made up. It's not true, in other words. It may not be true. And although it speaks to a truth.
Words and timings
Butnowthereistwothingstosayaboutthis.Thefirstisalotofthepeopleintheresponsesthinkit'smadeup.It'snottrue,inotherwords.Itmaynotbetrue.Andalthoughitspeakstoatruth.
Speaker 3
So it's a metaphorical truth, even if it isn't actually true. It does speak to the challenges of trying to represent old fashioned truth in an AI age.
Words and timings
Soit'sametaphoricaltruth,evenifitisn'tactuallytrue.ItdoesspeaktothechallengesoftryingtorepresentoldfashionedtruthinanAIage.
Speaker 2
And then the second thing is the motivation. It reminded me that when I was a at Kent University in Canterbury in 1974. Oh my God, Keith, you're giving away your age now. We had a thing called counterculture and counterculture was founded on the belief that the university was teaching us capitalist propaganda. And so we created a separate itinerary with separate professors and speakers in all of the social science subjects and encouraged students to attend the counter lectures, not the official lectures. And we did an essay bank, allowing students to take essays out of the bank with As. to hand into the official course. So we were politically motivated. These students are self-interested. Their motivation is... It got you fired, didn't it?
Words and timings
Andthenthesecondthingisthemotivation.ItremindedmethatwhenIwasaatKentUniversityinCanterburyin1974.OhmyGod,Keith,you'regivingawayyouragenow.Wehadathingcalledcountercultureandcounterculturewasfoundedonthebeliefthattheuniversitywasteachinguscapitalistpropaganda.Andsowecreatedaseparateitinerarywithseparateprofessorsandspeakersinallofthesocialsciencesubjectsandencouragedstudentstoattendthecounterlectures,nottheofficiallectures.Andwedidanessaybank,allowingstudentstotakeessaysoutofthebankwithAs.tohandintotheofficialcourse.Sowewerepoliticallymotivated.Thesestudentsareself-interested.Theirmotivationis...Itgotyoufired,didn'tit?
Speaker 3
Or it got you suspended from the university?
Words and timings
Oritgotyoususpendedfromtheuniversity?
Speaker 2
Well, we culminated in an exam boycott, which got me expelled for a year. Luckily, I got back in and they eventually gave me a... So I must have done something good as well. They gave you one for free.
Words and timings
Well,weculminatedinanexamboycott,whichgotmeexpelledforayear.Luckily,Igotbackinandtheyeventuallygavemea...SoImusthavedonesomethinggoodaswell.Theygaveyouoneforfree.
Speaker 3
You didn't have to pay for it.
Words and timings
Youdidn'thavetopayforit.
Speaker 2
But the point is students, you know, doing end arounds, official curriculums is nothing new.
Words and timings
Butthepointisstudents,youknow,doingendarounds,officialcurriculumsisnothingnew.
Speaker 3
Well, students, everyone talks about porn being the canary in the coal mine when it comes to tech. But I'm guessing really students are the canary in the coal mine. These are the next generation of people. They're growing up with AI. They know that they can get, quote unquote, the truth or the answers from other sources apart from the professor. So, and we talked about this last week. Meanwhile, parents are being asked to pay between 80 and 100,000 for this quote unquote privilege. So something's going to break, Keith, which is the theme of our show. And we won't be around next week because you and I will both be in Bilbao to see something broken or two broken teams. Someone's got to win. We will see Tottenham United at... Bilbao, Keith and I will be there in separate sections of the ground. Good luck, Keith. And we will talk in a couple of weeks. We will. Bye, everyone.
Words and timings
Well,students,everyonetalksaboutpornbeingthecanaryinthecoalminewhenitcomestotech.ButI'mguessingreallystudentsarethecanaryinthecoalmine.Thesearethenextgenerationofpeople.They'regrowingupwithAI.Theyknowthattheycanget,quoteunquote,thetruthortheanswersfromothersourcesapartfromtheprofessor.So,andwetalkedaboutthislastweek.Meanwhile,parentsarebeingaskedtopaybetween80and100,000forthisquoteunquoteprivilege.Sosomething'sgoingtobreak,Keith,whichisthethemeofourshow.Andwewon'tbearoundnextweekbecauseyouandIwillbothbeinBilbaotoseesomethingbrokenortwobrokenteams.Someone'sgottowin.WewillseeTottenhamUnitedat...Bilbao,KeithandIwillbethereinseparatesectionsoftheground.Goodluck,Keith.Andwewilltalkinacoupleofweeks.Wewill.Bye,everyone.