Speaker 3
Come on! I've got sunshine On a cloudy day When it's cold outside I've got the Monday morning Everybody sing! I guess
Words and timings
Comeon!I'vegotsunshineOnacloudydayWhenit'scoldoutsideI'vegottheMondaymorningEverybodysing!Iguess
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DOJ - Shame on Us
Mar 15, 2024 ยท 2024 #11. Read the transcript grouped by speaker, inspect word-level timecodes, and optionally turn subtitles on for direct video playback
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DOJ - Shame on Us
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Blocks are grouped by speaker for readability. Expand a block to inspect word-level timing.
Speaker 3
What can make me feel this way? It's my girl, I'm talking about my girl
Words and timings
Whatcanmakemefeelthisway?It'smygirl,I'mtalkingaboutmygirl
Speaker 4
Hello, everybody. It is Friday, March the 15th, 2024. Tech is in the news, as always, dominated by this TikTok issue. The House, a couple of days ago, passed the bill that could, at least according to the Washington Post, ban the app in the U.S. The Wall Street Journal reports that Steven Mnuchin, who had been, I think, Trump's treasury secretary as putting together a group to buy tick tock um and of course keith tear the author of that was the week uh tech newsletter which uh focuses on the week in tech is focusing this week on tick tock he has an ai produced um image which presents a man in front of a A map of the world, Keith, looking rather confusedly at it. And the title of the newsletter this week is Ban Foreigners Owning Key Assets? Is this why this guy's confused in your image?
Words and timings
Hello,everybody.ItisFriday,Marchthe15th,2024.Techisinthenews,asalways,dominatedbythisTikTokissue.TheHouse,acoupleofdaysago,passedthebillthatcould,atleastaccordingtotheWashingtonPost,bantheappintheU.S.TheWallStreetJournalreportsthatStevenMnuchin,whohadbeen,Ithink,Trump'streasurysecretaryasputtingtogetheragrouptobuyticktockumandofcoursekeithteartheauthorofthatwastheweekuhtechnewsletterwhichuhfocusesontheweekintechisfocusingthisweekonticktockhehasanaiproducedumimagewhichpresentsamaninfrontofaAmapoftheworld,Keith,lookingratherconfusedlyatit.AndthetitleofthenewsletterthisweekisBanForeignersOwningKeyAssets?Isthiswhythisguy'sconfusedinyourimage?
Speaker 1
I think he's not confused, he's contemplating. He's meant to be American, clearly. There's American flags everywhere. And he is contemplating national policy as it pertains to assets, which I thought is super funny when you think about it, Andrew. I mean, which country in the world owns most assets outside of their borders in other countries? America, right? And how many of those assets are key? All of them. It's like oil and natural resources and pharmaceuticals. There's all kinds of stuff. So here's America saying it's not okay for foreigners to own assets in another country.
Words and timings
Ithinkhe'snotconfused,he'scontemplating.He'smeanttobeAmerican,clearly.There'sAmericanflagseverywhere.Andheiscontemplatingnationalpolicyasitpertainstoassets,whichIthoughtissuperfunnywhenyouthinkaboutit,Andrew.Imean,whichcountryintheworldownsmostassetsoutsideoftheirbordersinothercountries?America,right?Andhowmanyofthoseassetsarekey?Allofthem.It'slikeoilandnaturalresourcesandpharmaceuticals.There'sallkindsofstuff.Sohere'sAmericasayingit'snotokayforforeignerstoownassetsinanothercountry.
Speaker 4
It's super... So what's your take on what's happening here, Keith? I mean, it's on one level absurd and humorous, on another level very disturbing. Is it just the rise of xenophobia, both on the left and the right in American politics? It seemed Biden and Trump, for example, are on a relatively similar page on this one.
Words and timings
It'ssuper...Sowhat'syourtakeonwhat'shappeninghere,Keith?Imean,it'sononelevelabsurdandhumorous,onanotherlevelverydisturbing.Isitjusttheriseofxenophobia,bothontheleftandtherightinAmericanpolitics?ItseemedBidenandTrump,forexample,areonarelativelysimilarpageonthisone.
Speaker 1
Well, look, I think there's some facts that are correct. For example, the Chinese government does have policies which impact what Tic Tac does and doesn't do inside China. And because ByteDance, the owner, was originally Chinese, it's now 60% American owned by big banks mainly. But, you know, just like Google is subject to US laws, TikTok is subject to Chinese laws. And just as in America, the government is the ultimate authority, so too in China. In China, it happens to be the Chinese Communist Party. Here, it happens to be some blend of republicans and democrats so the facts do say okay this is not a u.s a holy u.s thing but even when it is a u.s thing they want to control it in in the house as we talk about often so i don't think there's really a genuine threat i think it's politics what's the best argument is it that uh google isn't allowed
Words and timings
Well,look,Ithinkthere'ssomefactsthatarecorrect.Forexample,theChinesegovernmentdoeshavepolicieswhichimpactwhatTicTacdoesanddoesn'tdoinsideChina.AndbecauseByteDance,theowner,wasoriginallyChinese,it'snow60%Americanownedbybigbanksmainly.But,youknow,justlikeGoogleissubjecttoUSlaws,TikTokissubjecttoChineselaws.AndjustasinAmerica,thegovernmentistheultimateauthority,sotooinChina.InChina,ithappenstobetheChineseCommunistParty.Here,ithappenstobesomeblendofrepublicansanddemocratssothefactsdosayokaythisisnotau.saholyu.sthingbutevenwhenitisau.sthingtheywanttocontrolitininthehouseaswetalkaboutoftensoidon'tthinkthere'sreallyagenuinethreatithinkit'spoliticswhat'sthebestargumentisitthatuhgoogleisn'tallowed
Speaker 4
to be distributed in China? Not true. Actually, it isn't true.
Words and timings
tobedistributedinChina?Nottrue.Actually,itisn'ttrue.
Speaker 1
It's not a tip for tap thing? No, because Google is allowed to be in China and chose to pull out. They chose to leave a few years ago.
Words and timings
It'snotatipfortapthing?No,becauseGoogleisallowedtobeinChinaandchosetopullout.Theychosetoleaveafewyearsago.
Speaker 4
To their credit, I think.
Words and timings
Totheircredit,Ithink.
Speaker 1
Whereas Apple didn't.
Words and timings
WhereasAppledidn't.
Speaker 4
But Apple is slightly different. They manufacture a lot of their products in China, whereas Google is a front-end web product. What about Facebook?
Words and timings
ButAppleisslightlydifferent.TheymanufacturealotoftheirproductsinChina,whereasGoogleisafront-endwebproduct.WhataboutFacebook?
Speaker 1
No, no, but wait, Andrew. 50% of Chinese smartphone owners use iPhones and the App Store. So it's not just hardware.
Words and timings
No,no,butwait,Andrew.50%ofChinesesmartphoneownersuseiPhonesandtheAppStore.Soit'snotjusthardware.
Speaker 4
Yeah, but they also control what you can and can't see in the app store. What you can access in the app store in the US is different from what you can access in the app store in China.
Words and timings
Yeah,buttheyalsocontrolwhatyoucanandcan'tseeintheappstore.WhatyoucanaccessintheappstoreintheUSisdifferentfromwhatyoucanaccessintheappstoreinChina.
Speaker 1
Isn't that right? Totally true. But one of the things you can access is WeChat. and wechat is pretty much ubiquitous amongst anyone in china with a smartphone and that's where private conversations take place and that's completely you know they have keyword catching to block things like tiananmen square but every government does that i mean i don't think the chinese government's anymore is this is this just
Words and timings
Isn'tthatright?Totallytrue.ButoneofthethingsyoucanaccessisWeChat.andwechatisprettymuchubiquitousamongstanyoneinchinawithasmartphoneandthat'swhereprivateconversationstakeplaceandthat'scompletelyyouknowtheyhavekeywordcatchingtoblockthingsliketiananmensquarebuteverygovernmentdoesthatimeanidon'tthinkthechinesegovernment'sanymoreisthisisthisjust
Speaker 4
i've used this word we used it last week as well virtual signaling at least in what virtue is on the part of the american government are they serious about this is this just pre-election nonsense or is it for real and does it suggest a dissent into economic nationalism in the 2020s that economic nationalism must be part of it but it isn't a pure narrative because for example trump is against the tick-tock ban
Words and timings
i'veusedthiswordweuseditlastweekaswellvirtualsignalingatleastinwhatvirtueisonthepartoftheamericangovernmentaretheyseriousaboutthisisthisjustpre-electionnonsenseorisitforrealanddoesitsuggestadissentintoeconomicnationalisminthe2020sthateconomicnationalismmustbepartofitbutitisn'tapurenarrativebecauseforexampletrumpisagainstthetick-tockban
Speaker 1
But quite a few Republicans... Although he seems ambivalent, as always with Trump.
Words and timings
ButquiteafewRepublicans...Althoughheseemsambivalent,asalwayswithTrump.
Speaker 4
You're never quite sure what he... He probably doesn't know himself what he thinks. It just depends on what benefits him. Correct. Why is Biden... I mean, this is not a politics show, but why... It's not just Joe Biden, but the Biden administration. Why are they pushing a TikTok ban?
Words and timings
You'reneverquitesurewhathe...Heprobablydoesn'tknowhimselfwhathethinks.Itjustdependsonwhatbenefitshim.Correct.WhyisBiden...Imean,thisisnotapoliticsshow,butwhy...It'snotjustJoeBiden,buttheBidenadministration.WhyaretheypushingaTikTokban?
Speaker 1
I think there's massive sensitivities about... being seen to be soft on you know there's a list right migrants and china are two two of the things on the list tick tock is a proxy for china really even though it shouldn't be that's how they use it yeah and and so i think i think it's a sign of the opportunism in politics to speak to the crowd or what they think is the crowd in this case i think they may have called it wrong i mean i i don't detect any My kids use TikTok, and I don't detect any negativity. They fully know who owns it.
Words and timings
Ithinkthere'smassivesensitivitiesabout...beingseentobesoftonyouknowthere'salistrightmigrantsandchinaaretwotwoofthethingsonthelistticktockisaproxyforchinareallyeventhoughitshouldn'tbethat'showtheyuseityeahandandsoithinkithinkit'sasignoftheopportunisminpoliticstospeaktothecrowdorwhattheythinkisthecrowdinthiscaseithinktheymayhavecalleditwrongimeaniidon'tdetectanyMykidsuseTikTok,andIdon'tdetectanynegativity.Theyfullyknowwhoownsit.
Speaker 4
Why would they care?
Words and timings
Whywouldtheycare?
Speaker 1
Why would they care? The reason they use it, by the way, is because it's really good.
Words and timings
Whywouldtheycare?Thereasontheyuseit,bytheway,isbecauseit'sreallygood.
Speaker 4
Yeah, well, you can't blame the Chinese for that. What about the argument made by some people that China has access to all this data on TikTok, the Chinese government? What does that even mean?
Words and timings
Yeah,well,youcan'tblametheChineseforthat.WhatabouttheargumentmadebysomepeoplethatChinahasaccesstoallthisdataonTikTok,theChinesegovernment?Whatdoesthatevenmean?
Speaker 1
Well, let's assume they could see 100% of the data, which of course they can't.
Words and timings
Well,let'sassumetheycouldsee100%ofthedata,whichofcoursetheycan't.
Speaker 4
On TikTok? You and I can go on TikTok and find out what people are saying.
Words and timings
OnTikTok?YouandIcangoonTikTokandfindoutwhatpeoplearesaying.
Speaker 1
No, I mean, let's pretend they've got access to the log files and they can put them through database parsers and try to figure out trends. Or let's imagine they can use those log files to target political messages to individuals more susceptible to listening to those messages based on profiling them. So even in the most extreme scenario where they're really putting all the strings, which is clearly fake, they're not doing that. What's the harm? I mean, where's the damage? I still don't think they can brainwash people into believing things they don't already believe. So I just don't see the problem, actually. I think it's a fake problem. And it's insecure politicians, that may not be why they do it, but they clearly are insecure about controlling the message. And they hate it when the message may be out of their control. And let's be honest, for the last 20 years, Day by day, the message is more and more out of their control. And by them, I mean politicians, mainstream media. The message doesn't emerge anymore from the old channels. Usually it was American-owned businesses.
Words and timings
No,Imean,let'spretendthey'vegotaccesstothelogfilesandtheycanputthemthroughdatabaseparsersandtrytofigureouttrends.Orlet'simaginetheycanusethoselogfilestotargetpoliticalmessagestoindividualsmoresusceptibletolisteningtothosemessagesbasedonprofilingthem.Soeveninthemostextremescenariowherethey'rereallyputtingallthestrings,whichisclearlyfake,they'renotdoingthat.What'stheharm?Imean,where'sthedamage?Istilldon'tthinktheycanbrainwashpeopleintobelievingthingstheydon'talreadybelieve.SoIjustdon'tseetheproblem,actually.Ithinkit'safakeproblem.Andit'sinsecurepoliticians,thatmaynotbewhytheydoit,buttheyclearlyareinsecureaboutcontrollingthemessage.Andtheyhateitwhenthemessagemaybeoutoftheircontrol.Andlet'sbehonest,forthelast20years,Daybyday,themessageismoreandmoreoutoftheircontrol.Andbythem,Imeanpoliticians,mainstreammedia.Themessagedoesn'temergeanymorefromtheoldchannels.UsuallyitwasAmerican-ownedbusinesses.
Speaker 4
Now it's... Yeah, and if this is, as you say, 60% owned by American banks, why would the Chinese care anyway?
Words and timings
Nowit's...Yeah,andifthisis,asyousay,60%ownedbyAmericanbanks,whywouldtheChinesecareanyway?
Speaker 1
The Chinese, if they care at all, and I suspect they don't,
Words and timings
TheChinese,iftheycareatall,andIsuspecttheydon't,
Speaker 4
They're rather amused, I would guess. The Americans look very mature.
Words and timings
They'reratheramused,Iwouldguess.TheAmericanslookverymature.
Speaker 1
But if they did care, the only reason they care is to get a better understanding through data of America. And, you know, ultimately, that probably would be a good thing for the world if everyone had a better understanding of each other's population.
Words and timings
Butiftheydidcare,theonlyreasontheycareistogetabetterunderstandingthroughdataofAmerica.And,youknow,ultimately,thatprobablywouldbeagoodthingfortheworldifeveryonehadabetterunderstandingofeachother'spopulation.
Speaker 4
Yeah, I mean, it's rather painful, Keith, for me to agree so strongly wholehearted with you with you. Usually you and I disagree on stuff. I mean, this is just absurd. And it's united the tech press, the information which we're going to talk about later is against it. The EFF is against it, although one would expect that Vox is against it. I mean, everybody is against this.
Words and timings
Yeah,Imean,it'sratherpainful,Keith,formetoagreesostronglywholeheartedwithyouwithyou.UsuallyyouandIdisagreeonstuff.Imean,thisisjustabsurd.Andit'sunitedthetechpress,theinformationwhichwe'regoingtotalkaboutlaterisagainstit.TheEFFisagainstit,althoughonewouldexpectthatVoxisagainstit.Imean,everybodyisagainstthis.
Speaker 1
Well, not everybody.
Words and timings
Well,noteverybody.
Speaker 4
I mean, everyone within the tech media is anyone in Silicon Valley in any way sympathetic to this?
Words and timings
Imean,everyonewithinthetechmediaisanyoneinSiliconValleyinanywaysympathetictothis?
Speaker 1
I could be speaking out of turn here, but I think the all-in podcast people are split, but some of them are for it. That's Calacanis. David Sachs, probably. And I think that Elon is probably for it, but you can imagine why he might be for it. It clearly helps Twitter if tick tock is damaged and when we say for it by the way it probably should be clear the the bill requires a breakup uh it requires bite dance to sell tick tock to an american owner and the minutian thing is close to corruption i think because minutian was somebody who fought for TikTok to be treated as a special case from a regulatory point of view and is now popping up as a possible buyer with a consortium. Whoa. I mean, that is kind of crazy.
Words and timings
Icouldbespeakingoutofturnhere,butIthinktheall-inpodcastpeoplearesplit,butsomeofthemareforit.That'sCalacanis.DavidSachs,probably.AndIthinkthatElonisprobablyforit,butyoucanimaginewhyhemightbeforit.ItclearlyhelpsTwitterifticktockisdamagedandwhenwesayforitbythewayitprobablyshouldbeclearthethebillrequiresabreakupuhitrequiresbitedancetosellticktocktoanamericanownerandtheminutianthingisclosetocorruptionithinkbecauseminutianwassomebodywhofoughtforTikToktobetreatedasaspecialcasefromaregulatorypointofviewandisnowpoppingupasapossiblebuyerwithaconsortium.Whoa.Imean,thatiskindofcrazy.
Speaker 4
And I'm guessing that the Facebook people are rather enjoying this. First, it takes the spotlight off them. And secondly, it can't be bad for Facebook, which is, with Instagram, the most natural competitor to TikTok, isn't it?
Words and timings
AndI'mguessingthattheFacebookpeopleareratherenjoyingthis.First,ittakesthespotlightoffthem.Andsecondly,itcan'tbebadforFacebook,whichis,withInstagram,themostnaturalcompetitortoTikTok,isn'tit?
Speaker 1
I think it would like to be, but it's not even close. I mean, TikTok dominates that short form video. It doesn't dominate other things. So if TikTok is thinking of producing a photo app that would compete with Instagram, because Instagram is far ahead when it comes to photos, But, yeah, no, I think they all are laughing all the way to the bank because anything that harms TikTok helps them, which you would think would be antitrust on the face of it. I mean, if Lina Khan was watching, she'd have to defend.
Words and timings
Ithinkitwouldliketobe,butit'snotevenclose.Imean,TikTokdominatesthatshortformvideo.Itdoesn'tdominateotherthings.SoifTikTokisthinkingofproducingaphotoappthatwouldcompetewithInstagram,becauseInstagramisfaraheadwhenitcomestophotos,But,yeah,no,IthinktheyallarelaughingallthewaytothebankbecauseanythingthatharmsTikTokhelpsthem,whichyouwouldthinkwouldbeantitrustonthefaceofit.Imean,ifLinaKhanwaswatching,she'dhavetodefend.
Speaker 4
You couldn't resist bringing up your girlfriend, Keith, Lina Khan.
Words and timings
Youcouldn'tresistbringingupyourgirlfriend,Keith,LinaKhan.
Speaker 1
Surely she'd have to defend TikTok.
Words and timings
Surelyshe'dhavetodefendTikTok.
Speaker 4
Wouldn't she be shocked with this? I mean.
Words and timings
Wouldn'tshebeshockedwiththis?Imean.
Speaker 1
I have no idea.
Words and timings
Ihavenoidea.
Speaker 4
I can't read her mind, but. Well, if you're watching, we need to know how you feel about TikTok.
Words and timings
Ican'treadhermind,but.Well,ifyou'rewatching,weneedtoknowhowyoufeelaboutTikTok.
Speaker 1
It would be anti-competitive to get rid of them, that's for sure.
Words and timings
Itwouldbeanti-competitivetogetridofthem,that'sforsure.
Speaker 4
I mean, what's the most direct competitive then to TikTok in the US? Is it YouTube?
Words and timings
Imean,what'sthemostdirectcompetitivethentoTikTokintheUS?IsitYouTube?
Speaker 1
I think YouTube is close, but a latecomer as well to this particular format. You know, it's interesting how consumer apps, the format is everything. I think it's the same as doing TV, by the way. The guests and the substance are important, but the format is what triggers people.
Words and timings
IthinkYouTubeisclose,butalatecomeraswelltothisparticularformat.Youknow,it'sinterestinghowconsumerapps,theformatiseverything.Ithinkit'sthesameasdoingTV,bytheway.Theguestsandthesubstanceareimportant,buttheformatiswhattriggerspeople.
Speaker 4
It is TikTok. Does it have legs in the long term? Could it be a short-form success, but in the long run, it goes away?
Words and timings
ItisTikTok.Doesithavelegsinthelongterm?Coulditbeashort-formsuccess,butinthelongrun,itgoesaway?
Speaker 1
I doubt it, because it's dopamine-fueling. What it does, I watch... My wife, Jeanne, is a TikTok enthusiast. And she can spend, in her downtime in the evening, instead of binge watching, TV for two hours, she can literally spend two hours on TikTok. And I hear her laughing, belly laughing, chortling, because it feeds the stuff that she finds funny. And the algorithm there is so good at repeat experiences, but different content.
Words and timings
Idoubtit,becauseit'sdopamine-fueling.Whatitdoes,Iwatch...Mywife,Jeanne,isaTikTokenthusiast.Andshecanspend,inherdowntimeintheevening,insteadofbingewatching,TVfortwohours,shecanliterallyspendtwohoursonTikTok.AndIhearherlaughing,bellylaughing,chortling,becauseitfeedsthestuffthatshefindsfunny.Andthealgorithmthereissogoodatrepeatexperiences,butdifferentcontent.
Speaker 4
How do you feel, Keith, about your wife being in the control of the Chinese government? Is this the Manchurian candidate all over again? What happens if she starts spouting the propaganda of Xi and the Chinese Communist Party after watching TikTok?
Words and timings
Howdoyoufeel,Keith,aboutyourwifebeinginthecontroloftheChinesegovernment?IsthistheManchuriancandidatealloveragain?WhathappensifshestartsspoutingthepropagandaofXiandtheChineseCommunistPartyafterwatchingTikTok?
Speaker 1
I think based on where her and I are politically, I'd accuse her of becoming more right wing if that was to happen.
Words and timings
IthinkbasedonwhereherandIarepolitically,I'daccuseherofbecomingmorerightwingifthatwastohappen.
Speaker 4
Well, we agree 100% on this one. I hope it goes away. It probably won't. What else is happening this week? A relatively quiet week outside TikTok. You had an interesting piece in the newsletter this week on the Vision Pro as an over-engineered dev kit. What does that mean?
Words and timings
Well,weagree100%onthisone.Ihopeitgoesaway.Itprobablywon't.Whatelseishappeningthisweek?ArelativelyquietweekoutsideTikTok.YouhadaninterestingpieceinthenewsletterthisweekontheVisionProasanover-engineereddevkit.Whatdoesthatmean?
Speaker 1
Dev kit. So this is coming from one of the founders of Oculus, who was acquired by Facebook and has the Quest 3D face mask. um he's a very experienced and thoughtful guy he says a lot of good things about the vision pro but he says whereas other people say it is a version one he calls it a dev kit which is less than a version one it's where it's mainly built for developers to get familiar with you have one is is it version one or a dev kit I used it yesterday to construct the newsletter, which is the first time I've used it to do a piece of work. Yeah, I don't think it's a version one yet because I couldn't complete my task on it. I had to take it off.
Words and timings
Devkit.SothisiscomingfromoneofthefoundersofOculus,whowasacquiredbyFacebookandhastheQuest3Dfacemask.umhe'saveryexperiencedandthoughtfulguyhesaysalotofgoodthingsaboutthevisionprobuthesayswhereasotherpeoplesayitisaversiononehecallsitadevkitwhichislessthanaversiononeit'swhereit'smainlybuiltfordeveloperstogetfamiliarwithyouhaveoneisisitversiononeoradevkitIusedityesterdaytoconstructthenewsletter,whichisthefirsttimeI'veusedittodoapieceofwork.Yeah,Idon'tthinkit'saversiononeyetbecauseIcouldn'tcompletemytaskonit.Ihadtotakeitoff.
Speaker 4
You're regretting that $3,500 you spent?
Words and timings
You'reregrettingthat$3,500youspent?
Speaker 1
No, because just watching movies on it over a year will pay for that, I think.
Words and timings
No,becausejustwatchingmoviesonitoverayearwillpayforthat,Ithink.
Speaker 4
What happens if you put it on and you look at TikTok? Do you become controlled by the Chinese government?
Words and timings
WhathappensifyouputitonandyoulookatTikTok?DoyoubecomecontrolledbytheChinesegovernment?
Speaker 1
TikTok does have an app for it, and it's a super good implementation.
Words and timings
TikTokdoeshaveanappforit,andit'sasupergoodimplementation.
Speaker 4
Now we're getting to the truth.
Words and timings
Nowwe'regettingtothetruth.
Speaker 1
To be honest, I used it wrong.
Words and timings
Tobehonest,Iuseditwrong.
Speaker 4
We need to doubly ban it. AI, of course, remains in the news. An interesting piece from Strange Luke Cannon, a good Substack essay on how LLMs have special intelligence. Not general, but that's pretty impressive. And interestingly enough, it's Claude3, which is leading the leaderboard at the moment. It beats ChatGPT. Yeah, beats Gemini. How impressed are you with Claude Keith? I know we've talked about this before. And what does Strange Loop Canon tell us about LLMs in terms of their special intelligence?
Words and timings
Weneedtodoublybanit.AI,ofcourse,remainsinthenews.AninterestingpiecefromStrangeLukeCannon,agoodSubstackessayonhowLLMshavespecialintelligence.Notgeneral,butthat'sprettyimpressive.Andinterestinglyenough,it'sClaude3,whichisleadingtheleaderboardatthemoment.ItbeatsChatGPT.Yeah,beatsGemini.HowimpressedareyouwithClaudeKeith?Iknowwe'vetalkedaboutthisbefore.AndwhatdoesStrangeLoopCanontellusaboutLLMsintermsoftheirspecialintelligence?
Speaker 1
So Strange Loop Canon is the newsletter of Rohit Krishnan. I strongly recommend reading it. He's a really good writer.
Words and timings
SoStrangeLoopCanonisthenewsletterofRohitKrishnan.Istronglyrecommendreadingit.He'sareallygoodwriter.
Speaker 4
Yeah, I just subscribed. He has 10,000 subscribers, so he's clearly doing something
Words and timings
Yeah,Ijustsubscribed.Hehas10,000subscribers,sohe'sclearlydoingsomething
Speaker 1
right yeah he's super smart he's british and um he's not chinese i hope no if he was anything he'd be indian i think with a name like rohit krishnan but he's he's british and um he's a he's a deep thinker he's very numerate uh very data savvy and and what he writes here is just a clarification really it's it it rings close to what we discussed initially when we talked about chat gpt and that is to say that these things are really good at specific things and if that's your job if any of the things they're good at is your job it's going to save you a lot of time and make you better at your job and that's what he calls special knowledge as opposed to general intelligence and i think that's exactly right your claude three question is interesting because i've been using open ai for sql programming for probably a year now and and it is very good i tried claude three over the last two weeks and it is better it's definitely better so you have to acknowledge keith you're wrong because you've been telling me for months that open ai is miles ahead of and chat gpt is miles ahead of everyone else you're wrong you were wrong now Well, I'd put it this way. Claude III has caught up and maybe surpassed it a little bit in some areas, but that's a year after GPT-4 was shipped. I'm going to guess that Open AI is close to GPT-5.
Words and timings
rightyeahhe'ssupersmarthe'sbritishandumhe'snotchineseihopenoifhewasanythinghe'dbeindianithinkwithanamelikerohitkrishnanbuthe'she'sbritishandumhe'sahe'sadeepthinkerhe'sverynumerateuhverydatasavvyandandwhathewriteshereisjustaclarificationreallyit'sititringsclosetowhatwediscussedinitiallywhenwetalkedaboutchatgptandthatistosaythatthesethingsarereallygoodatspecificthingsandifthat'syourjobifanyofthethingsthey'regoodatisyourjobit'sgoingtosaveyoualotoftimeandmakeyoubetteratyourjobandthat'swhathecallsspecialknowledgeasopposedtogeneralintelligenceandithinkthat'sexactlyrightyourclaudethreequestionisinterestingbecausei'vebeenusingopenaiforsqlprogrammingforprobablyayearnowandanditisverygooditriedclaudethreeoverthelasttwoweeksanditisbetterit'sdefinitelybettersoyouhavetoacknowledgekeithyou'rewrongbecauseyou'vebeentellingmeformonthsthatopenaiismilesaheadofandchatgptismilesaheadofeveryoneelseyou'rewrongyouwerewrongnowWell,I'dputitthisway.ClaudeIIIhascaughtupandmaybesurpasseditalittlebitinsomeareas,butthat'sayearafterGPT-4wasshipped.I'mgoingtoguessthatOpenAIisclosetoGPT-5.
Speaker 4
Is this going to be like the wacky races where every week someone else is ahead? Yes, it is. In the rankings that Krishna writes about, Gemini isn't far behind. They get... 99.6%. ChatGPT gets 99.99%. Claude gets 99.9999%. So they're all pretty close, right? They're close. But remember, those are IQ numbers. And you and me have IQs bigger than that.
Words and timings
Isthisgoingtobelikethewackyraceswhereeveryweeksomeoneelseisahead?Yes,itis.IntherankingsthatKrishnawritesabout,Geminiisn'tfarbehind.Theyget...99.6%.ChatGPTgets99.99%.Claudegets99.9999%.Sothey'reallprettyclose,right?They'reclose.Butremember,thoseareIQnumbers.AndyouandmehaveIQsbiggerthanthat.
Speaker 1
Speak for yourself. So he's saying that they're as smart probably as an entering undergraduate in university as a kind of an average.
Words and timings
Speakforyourself.Sohe'ssayingthatthey'reassmartprobablyasanenteringundergraduateinuniversityasakindofanaverage.
Speaker 4
I don't know whether we should be chilled by that or pleased.
Words and timings
Idon'tknowwhetherweshouldbechilledbythatorpleased.
Speaker 1
But in specialist subjects, they're way better.
Words and timings
Butinspecialistsubjects,they'rewaybetter.
Speaker 4
Well, when it comes to fear of AI, I had two interesting pieces in the newsletter this week, one from the wall street journal about how open AI's AI videos are so good that they should freak us out. And another about, um, an AI video that will blow your mind and maybe even scare you, an OpenAI video. How impressive is all this video OpenAI, or not OpenAI, video AI, Keith? And is OpenAI leading here?
Words and timings
Well,whenitcomestofearofAI,Ihadtwointerestingpiecesinthenewsletterthisweek,onefromthewallstreetjournalabouthowopenAI'sAIvideosaresogoodthattheyshouldfreakusout.Andanotherabout,um,anAIvideothatwillblowyourmindandmaybeevenscareyou,anOpenAIvideo.HowimpressiveisallthisvideoOpenAI,ornotOpenAI,videoAI,Keith?AndisOpenAIleadinghere?
Speaker 1
Well, it's interesting. The Wall Street Journal interviews the CTO of OpenAI, and she she in the interview points out the flaws in the video for example there's a bull in a china shop video where the bull is trampling all over china but the china uh meaning uh he brought out the chinese again exactly cups and so it wasn't it wasn't cups and sauces it was beijing and shanghai But the bull is trampling all over the China and the China doesn't break. So she points out that, look, it isn't perfect because it doesn't understand.
Words and timings
Well,it'sinteresting.TheWallStreetJournalinterviewstheCTOofOpenAI,andshesheintheinterviewpointsouttheflawsinthevideoforexamplethere'sabullinachinashopvideowherethebullistramplingalloverchinabutthechinauhmeaninguhhebroughtoutthechineseagainexactlycupsandsoitwasn'titwasn'tcupsandsaucesitwasbeijingandshanghaiButthebullistramplingallovertheChinaandtheChinadoesn'tbreak.Soshepointsoutthat,look,itisn'tperfectbecauseitdoesn'tunderstand.
Speaker 4
That's a metaphor for American failure to deal with the Chinese, isn't it?
Words and timings
That'sametaphorforAmericanfailuretodealwiththeChinese,isn'tit?
Speaker 1
Could be. We could certainly shoehorn that into the conversation without any doubt.
Words and timings
Couldbe.Wecouldcertainlyshoehornthatintotheconversationwithoutanydoubt.
Speaker 4
So what is OpenAI? What is the OpenAI videos? Why is it so impressive and scary?
Words and timings
SowhatisOpenAI?WhatistheOpenAIvideos?Whyisitsoimpressiveandscary?
Speaker 1
It's impressive because, and she breaks it down, there's 60 frames a second in video, somewhere between 24 and 60, depending on the format you use. And every frame has to be organically connected to the frame before, plus the change. And for an AI in a minute to produce 60 times 60 frames that lead to a linear video that looks as if it was filmed is already very impressive. And the fact that it can pick characters, scenes, objects within the scene, and follow everything through frame by frame
Words and timings
It'simpressivebecause,andshebreaksitdown,there's60framesasecondinvideo,somewherebetween24and60,dependingontheformatyouuse.Andeveryframehastobeorganicallyconnectedtotheframebefore,plusthechange.AndforanAIinaminutetoproduce60times60framesthatleadtoalinearvideothatlooksasifitwasfilmedisalreadyveryimpressive.Andthefactthatitcanpickcharacters,scenes,objectswithinthescene,andfolloweverythingthroughframebyframe
Speaker 1
and can do that based on you giving it just some text, a storyline, if you will. No, there's no doubt that's important.
Words and timings
andcandothatbasedonyougivingitjustsometext,astoryline,ifyouwill.No,there'snodoubtthat'simportant.
Speaker 4
How hard would it be? I mean, you've got your image, which you use some of the graphic AI to create at the beginning about an American staring at a screen of the world, how hard would it be to turn that into video?
Words and timings
Howhardwoulditbe?Imean,you'vegotyourimage,whichyouusesomeofthegraphicAItocreateatthebeginningaboutanAmericanstaringatascreenoftheworld,howhardwoulditbetoturnthatintovideo?
Speaker 1
I'm sure if when they release Sora, I'll be able to say, give me a 30-second video of that scene where the guy stands up and throws a tomato at the screen at the end and it will be able to do it.
Words and timings
I'msureifwhentheyreleaseSora,I'llbeabletosay,givemea30-secondvideoofthatscenewheretheguystandsupandthrowsatomatoatthescreenattheendanditwillbeabletodoit.
Speaker 4
When the pieces talk about forgetting Sora, they're saying that OpenAI's video is already really impressive and Sora is going to blow it away.
Words and timings
WhenthepiecestalkaboutforgettingSora,they'resayingthatOpenAI'svideoisalreadyreallyimpressiveandSoraisgoingtoblowitaway.
Speaker 1
No, so Sora and OpenAI is the same thing.
Words and timings
No,soSoraandOpenAIisthesamething.
Speaker 4
No, I understand. So even now, pre-Sora, OpenAI has an impressive video tool.
Words and timings
No,Iunderstand.Soevennow,pre-Sora,OpenAIhasanimpressivevideotool.
Speaker 1
Yeah. Now, the second one you're showing with the robot in, that's actually different. That is a robot made by... Oh, that's Figure AI. Figure. Figure. And they've made a robot, and this video is a demo of the robot interacting with a human being, carrying out tasks that the human asks it to do, including giving him some fruit to eat, stacking some dishes in a dryer, various things, with verbal feedback. They talk to each other.
Words and timings
Yeah.Now,thesecondoneyou'reshowingwiththerobotin,that'sactuallydifferent.Thatisarobotmadeby...Oh,that'sFigureAI.Figure.Figure.Andthey'vemadearobot,andthisvideoisademooftherobotinteractingwithahumanbeing,carryingouttasksthatthehumanasksittodo,includinggivinghimsomefruittoeat,stackingsomedishesinadryer,variousthings,withverbalfeedback.Theytalktoeachother.
Speaker 4
It's like what a husband does with their wife.
Words and timings
It'slikewhatahusbanddoeswiththeirwife.
Speaker 1
In my case, my wife walks into the kitchen and says, there's some cleaning up to be done and then leaves.
Words and timings
Inmycase,mywifewalksintothekitchenandsays,there'ssomecleaninguptobedoneandthenleaves.
Speaker 4
Then she goes back to watching TikTok. She's obviously been programmed by the Chinese. You should take her to the doctor. Well, OpenAI is scary, but there is some normal stuff still going on. We had an interesting piece. Everyone kind of wrote Coinbase off last year, but they seem to be coming back. They raised a billion dollars through convertible notes. Is crypto coming back?
Words and timings
ThenshegoesbacktowatchingTikTok.She'sobviouslybeenprogrammedbytheChinese.Youshouldtakehertothedoctor.Well,OpenAIisscary,butthereissomenormalstuffstillgoingon.Wehadaninterestingpiece.EveryonekindofwroteCoinbaseofflastyear,buttheyseemtobecomingback.Theyraisedabilliondollarsthroughconvertiblenotes.Iscryptocomingback?
Speaker 1
Well, you have to say yes to that. Look, Bitcoin, I haven't looked today.
Words and timings
Well,youhavetosayyestothat.Look,Bitcoin,Ihaven'tlookedtoday.
Speaker 4
Yeah, we talked last week about the price of Bitcoin. I'm not sure what the numbers are this week.
Words and timings
Yeah,wetalkedlastweekaboutthepriceofBitcoin.I'mnotsurewhatthenumbersarethisweek.
Speaker 1
It got to 70 something thousand dollars at one point this week. I don't know if it's still there. And somebody in the chat can tell us. And the associated crypto coins like Ethereum and Solana have also gone up massively. So I think you do have to say crypto is back. It's mainly Bitcoin centric. However, the ETF that BlackRock built on on the stock exchanges now has more than $10 billion of money flowing into it. graycroft the is it graycroft gray something um maybe gray scale but the the one that was already in existence it has something like 90 billion and uh there's a company that uh simply by microstrategy i think it's called that only buys bitcoin um with its cash it has the largest pool of Bitcoin and its stock price has gone up.
Words and timings
Itgotto70somethingthousanddollarsatonepointthisweek.Idon'tknowifit'sstillthere.Andsomebodyinthechatcantellus.AndtheassociatedcryptocoinslikeEthereumandSolanahavealsogoneupmassively.SoIthinkyoudohavetosaycryptoisback.It'smainlyBitcoincentric.However,theETFthatBlackRockbuiltononthestockexchangesnowhasmorethan$10billionofmoneyflowingintoit.graycrofttheisitgraycroftgraysomethingummaybegrayscalebutthetheonethatwasalreadyinexistenceithassomethinglike90billionanduhthere'sacompanythatuhsimplybymicrostrategyithinkit'scalledthatonlybuysbitcoinumwithitscashithasthelargestpoolofBitcoinanditsstockpricehasgoneup.
Speaker 4
Yeah, my prediction will be that this will come back to bite us. We'll see. It's always easy to predict these things. Meanwhile, Stripe continues to do well. I think they announced that they weren't going to do an IPO this week, but they're Growth continue at least according to tech crunch continues to impress.
Words and timings
Yeah,mypredictionwillbethatthiswillcomebacktobiteus.We'llsee.It'salwayseasytopredictthesethings.Meanwhile,Stripecontinuestodowell.Ithinktheyannouncedthattheyweren'tgoingtodoanIPOthisweek,butthey'reGrowthcontinueatleastaccordingtotechcrunchcontinuestoimpress.
Speaker 1
There's total payment volume tops a trillion dollars Tell me about stripe and and their place in the new world key look It's a kind of a known thing in solid world that you should go to a VC with a deck And you should give them a big number in stripes case that big number is the world's GDP which is about a hundred and twenty trillion and And you should say, we think we can get 1% of this big number. And then VCs, if they believe you, should give you money. In Stripe's case, they've done it. I mean, a trillion dollars is close to 1% of global GDP, and it's flowing through their payment system, which is embedded in most websites and apps. So that's astonishing.
Words and timings
There'stotalpaymentvolumetopsatrilliondollarsTellmeaboutstripeandandtheirplaceinthenewworldkeylookIt'sakindofaknownthinginsolidworldthatyoushouldgotoaVCwithadeckAndyoushouldgivethemabignumberinstripescasethatbignumberistheworld'sGDPwhichisaboutahundredandtwentytrillionandAndyoushouldsay,wethinkwecanget1%ofthisbignumber.AndthenVCs,iftheybelieveyou,shouldgiveyoumoney.InStripe'scase,they'vedoneit.Imean,atrilliondollarsiscloseto1%ofglobalGDP,andit'sflowingthroughtheirpaymentsystem,whichisembeddedinmostwebsitesandapps.Sothat'sastonishing.
Speaker 4
And what percentage of that comes back to Stripe? What's the revenue model? it'll be super tiny because it's the right but even even what a 0.0001 percent of a trillion dollars is a lot of money it'll be more than one percent more than one percent yeah because they have transaction fees why don't they do an ipo
Words and timings
AndwhatpercentageofthatcomesbacktoStripe?What'stherevenuemodel?it'llbesupertinybecauseit'stherightbutevenevenwhata0.0001percentofatrilliondollarsisalotofmoneyit'llbemorethanonepercentmorethanonepercentyeahbecausetheyhavetransactionfeeswhydon'ttheydoanipo
Speaker 1
They'll choose their time. It's interesting, the Reddit IPO is going to take place next week. I didn't put it in the info.
Words and timings
They'llchoosetheirtime.It'sinteresting,theRedditIPOisgoingtotakeplacenextweek.Ididn'tputitintheinfo.
Speaker 4
Yeah, that's not a very interesting one. But Stripe is part of the new plumbing, isn't it?
Words and timings
Yeah,that'snotaveryinterestingone.ButStripeispartofthenewplumbing,isn'tit?
Speaker 1
Well, there is a correlation. The currency of an IPO is free cash flow and the rate of growth of the free cash flow. So that is to say, after you've paid all your bills, including your taxes and everything, how much is left over? how fast is that number growing now in the case of reddit it's not a good answer and in the case of stripe i suspect it's also not a good answer so you exposing yourself to public markets you have to have growth percentage growth from a base that is you know good enough for the market and then they will give you a multiple valuation on that Reddit is IPOing only six times its revenue, which is low, because the normal market for a company like Reddit would be 10 to 20 times its revenue. So six times is on the low side. And that's because the stock market as a whole has got what we call depressed multiples. I think Stripe is going to try to time it so that it isn't hammered in its valuation. Reddit's going out at $6 billion. Its prior private valuation was three times bigger than that.
Words and timings
Well,thereisacorrelation.ThecurrencyofanIPOisfreecashflowandtherateofgrowthofthefreecashflow.Sothatistosay,afteryou'vepaidallyourbills,includingyourtaxesandeverything,howmuchisleftover?howfastisthatnumbergrowingnowinthecaseofredditit'snotagoodanswerandinthecaseofstripeisuspectit'salsonotagoodanswersoyouexposingyourselftopublicmarketsyouhavetohavegrowthpercentagegrowthfromabasethatisyouknowgoodenoughforthemarketandthentheywillgiveyouamultiplevaluationonthatRedditisIPOingonlysixtimesitsrevenue,whichislow,becausethenormalmarketforacompanylikeRedditwouldbe10to20timesitsrevenue.Sosixtimesisonthelowside.Andthat'sbecausethestockmarketasawholehasgotwhatwecalldepressedmultiples.IthinkStripeisgoingtotrytotimeitsothatitisn'thammeredinitsvaluation.Reddit'sgoingoutat$6billion.Itspriorprivatevaluationwasthreetimesbiggerthanthat.
Speaker 4
Well, you would think that this would suggest that Keith would have given either Reddit or Stripe startup of the week, but he hasn't. He's gone for the information, which is a really... It's an encouraging story, Keith, because we do so many stories on the crisis of journalism and the collapse of all these online publications. The information this week got honored with five Best in Business Journalism Awards. It's a good story. It's a good product. What is the information doing well, right, that everybody else is doing wrong?
Words and timings
Well,youwouldthinkthatthiswouldsuggestthatKeithwouldhavegiveneitherRedditorStripestartupoftheweek,buthehasn't.He'sgonefortheinformation,whichisareally...It'sanencouragingstory,Keith,becausewedosomanystoriesonthecrisisofjournalismandthecollapseofalltheseonlinepublications.TheinformationthisweekgothonoredwithfiveBestinBusinessJournalismAwards.It'sagoodstory.It'sagoodproduct.Whatistheinformationdoingwell,right,thateverybodyelseisdoingwrong?
Speaker 1
Well, the first thing it's doing is proper journalism. It actually goes and seeks out stories and facts.
Words and timings
Well,thefirstthingit'sdoingisproperjournalism.Itactuallygoesandseeksoutstoriesandfacts.
Speaker 4
But everyone, I mean, anyone can do that if they've got the resources.
Words and timings
Buteveryone,Imean,anyonecandothatifthey'vegottheresources.
Speaker 1
Well, it's also doing, I don't know if everyone, you know, we'll come back to that, but so let's stick on the first answer. They're doing good journalism. They're doing good investigation. They are focusing in on stories that actually matter to the tech world, which is their audience. So they're not writing fluff pieces for the most part. Almost everything is meaningful. And when you read it, it forces you to consider it. I think that's really good. I think Jessica Lesson seems to be an extremely good CEO. She has built a very good team and she doesn't, you know, she doesn't lead from the front as in this is all about me.
Words and timings
Well,it'salsodoing,Idon'tknowifeveryone,youknow,we'llcomebacktothat,butsolet'sstickonthefirstanswer.They'redoinggoodjournalism.They'redoinggoodinvestigation.Theyarefocusinginonstoriesthatactuallymattertothetechworld,whichistheiraudience.Sothey'renotwritingfluffpiecesforthemostpart.Almosteverythingismeaningful.Andwhenyoureadit,itforcesyoutoconsiderit.Ithinkthat'sreallygood.IthinkJessicaLessonseemstobeanextremelygoodCEO.Shehasbuiltaverygoodteamandshedoesn't,youknow,shedoesn'tleadfromthefrontasinthisisallaboutme.
Speaker 4
Yeah, she's certainly no Mike Arrington, is she?
Words and timings
Yeah,she'scertainlynoMikeArrington,isshe?
Speaker 1
She definitely is not a Mike Arrington, but we love Mike Arrington, so.
Words and timings
ShedefinitelyisnotaMikeArrington,butweloveMikeArrington,so.
Speaker 4
Speak for yourself. Of course, she's married to Facebook money. Did she, have they invested money huge amounts into the information. Their business model is, of course, subscription. It's hard to get access. I used to subscribe, but it was rather expensive. But it's probably worth it. Is their entire business model based on subscription?
Words and timings
Speakforyourself.Ofcourse,she'smarriedtoFacebookmoney.Didshe,havetheyinvestedmoneyhugeamountsintotheinformation.Theirbusinessmodelis,ofcourse,subscription.It'shardtogetaccess.Iusedtosubscribe,butitwasratherexpensive.Butit'sprobablyworthit.Istheirentirebusinessmodelbasedonsubscription?
Speaker 1
It is. I think it is. And as you say, it's not cheap. I'm a subscriber and I've forgotten how much.
Words and timings
Itis.Ithinkitis.Andasyousay,it'snotcheap.I'masubscriberandI'veforgottenhowmuch.
Speaker 4
You have to be as Mr. Investment. You have to keep up with... Stuff it was a large amount of money put in by perhaps her family and their friends I don't believe it was under I think I mean that you know I should be carefully because I actually don't know the facts But yeah, my impression is it was bootstrapped from the beginning with very impressive and you have to assume that that the New York Times which is always desperate for acquisitions or Washington Post and The Wall Street Journal, they'd all give Jessica Lessing a blank check for the information.
Words and timings
YouhavetobeasMr.Investment.Youhavetokeepupwith...StuffitwasalargeamountofmoneyputinbyperhapsherfamilyandtheirfriendsIdon'tbelieveitwasunderIthinkImeanthatyouknowIshouldbecarefullybecauseIactuallydon'tknowthefactsButyeah,myimpressionisitwasbootstrappedfromthebeginningwithveryimpressiveandyouhavetoassumethatthattheNewYorkTimeswhichisalwaysdesperateforacquisitionsorWashingtonPostandTheWallStreetJournal,they'dallgiveJessicaLessingablankcheckfortheinformation.
Speaker 1
Yeah. Well, you know, it sits alongside Axios and Politico and The Atlantic.
Words and timings
Yeah.Well,youknow,itsitsalongsideAxiosandPoliticoandTheAtlantic.
Speaker 4
But it makes money in contrast to The Atlantic. It's not some philanthropic thing.
Words and timings
ButitmakesmoneyincontrasttoTheAtlantic.It'snotsomephilanthropicthing.
Speaker 1
Yeah, it does make money. And they do do events. I actually think they leave a lot of money on the table, because they do have the gravitas to do events that people would show up to. I look at Connie Loizos at TechCrunch, who now runs TechCrunch for its owners. And she's very good with her newsletter Strictly VC, which is now owned by TechCrunch. Strictly VC does these events that sell out. I do think that journalism and events go together super well. And the information does do some events, but I think it could actually make a lot of money doing them better.
Words and timings
Yeah,itdoesmakemoney.Andtheydodoevents.Iactuallythinktheyleavealotofmoneyonthetable,becausetheydohavethegravitastodoeventsthatpeoplewouldshowupto.IlookatConnieLoizosatTechCrunch,whonowrunsTechCrunchforitsowners.Andshe'sverygoodwithhernewsletterStrictlyVC,whichisnowownedbyTechCrunch.StrictlyVCdoestheseeventsthatsellout.Idothinkthatjournalismandeventsgotogethersuperwell.Andtheinformationdoesdosomeevents,butIthinkitcouldactuallymakealotofmoneydoingthembetter.
Speaker 4
And presumably Lesson isn't desperate to sell out in terms of going to the bank herself, that she already has money in the family.
Words and timings
AndpresumablyLessonisn'tdesperatetoselloutintermsofgoingtothebankherself,thatshealreadyhasmoneyinthefamily.
Speaker 1
Yeah, I don't know her personally, so I can't judge that.
Words and timings
Yeah,Idon'tknowherpersonally,soIcan'tjudgethat.
Speaker 4
It's a good story, and it should be a model for other journalism startups, does it suggest that there are opportunities in other verticals? The Athletic, of course, sold to the New York Times, but the information focuses on tech. I presume that they're not thinking of going into other verticals.
Words and timings
It'sagoodstory,anditshouldbeamodelforotherjournalismstartups,doesitsuggestthatthereareopportunitiesinotherverticals?TheAthletic,ofcourse,soldtotheNewYorkTimes,buttheinformationfocusesontech.Ipresumethatthey'renotthinkingofgoingintootherverticals.
Speaker 1
There are others, Andrew. Do you read Unheard in the UK?
Words and timings
Thereareothers,Andrew.DoyoureadUnheardintheUK?
Speaker 4
Yeah. It's good. I mean, it's... You probably like... I don't like its politics. You probably like... It's a sort of libertarian, a right-wing libertarian thing.
Words and timings
Yeah.It'sgood.Imean,it's...Youprobablylike...Idon'tlikeitspolitics.Youprobablylike...It'sasortoflibertarian,aright-winglibertarianthing.
Speaker 1
Well, it depends. Like Jake Faraday, who's the son of my former professor, Frank Faraday, is an editor there. And he's definitely, I wouldn't characterize him politically, actually. He's just a curious investor. And he's super good. That team, it's really all about the team. I mean, the information starts with Jessica Lessin. I think UnHerd starts with Jake Faraday and a couple of others. Is Faraday the editor at UnHerd? He's not the executive editor, but he's one level down from that. But they do all the work, basically.
Words and timings
Well,itdepends.LikeJakeFaraday,who'sthesonofmyformerprofessor,FrankFaraday,isaneditorthere.Andhe'sdefinitely,Iwouldn'tcharacterizehimpolitically,actually.He'sjustacuriousinvestor.Andhe'ssupergood.Thatteam,it'sreallyallabouttheteam.Imean,theinformationstartswithJessicaLessin.IthinkUnHerdstartswithJakeFaradayandacoupleofothers.IsFaradaytheeditoratUnHerd?He'snottheexecutiveeditor,buthe'soneleveldownfromthat.Buttheydoallthework,basically.
Speaker 4
Congratulations on the information they have. The most important award, Keith's Startup of the Week. And finally, it wouldn't be That Was the Week unless Keith was writing about his hero, Elon Musk. And we have an X from Cyan Bannister, herself a... Distinguished figure in Silicon Valley.
Words and timings
Congratulationsontheinformationtheyhave.Themostimportantaward,Keith'sStartupoftheWeek.Andfinally,itwouldn'tbeThatWastheWeekunlessKeithwaswritingabouthishero,ElonMusk.AndwehaveanXfromCyanBannister,herselfa...DistinguishedfigureinSiliconValley.
Speaker 1
Thank you, Elon Musk. It's worth reading out, actually, Andrew.
Words and timings
Thankyou,ElonMusk.It'sworthreadingout,actually,Andrew.
Speaker 4
Yeah, I'll read it out. Many periods during our history, we would have built statues of Elon and celebrated him. Let's not wait to do it posthumously, as so many have done with others, but instead celebrate him today and continue to cheer him on. In the face of great adversity, he and his team continue to astonish and bring humanity to greater and greater heights. technological advancements and of course what he's what she's talking about is spacex for what she says doing the unthinkable launching the a giant starship rocket into space although i'm not sure she covers this uh it did get lost uh in the indian ocean but i assume you agree with banister key yeah it got lost on re-entry and uh it did re-enter
Words and timings
Yeah,I'llreaditout.Manyperiodsduringourhistory,wewouldhavebuiltstatuesofElonandcelebratedhim.Let'snotwaittodoitposthumously,assomanyhavedonewithothers,butinsteadcelebratehimtodayandcontinuetocheerhimon.Inthefaceofgreatadversity,heandhisteamcontinuetoastonishandbringhumanitytogreaterandgreaterheights.technologicaladvancementsandofcoursewhathe'swhatshe'stalkingaboutisspacexforwhatshesaysdoingtheunthinkablelaunchingtheagiantstarshiprocketintospacealthoughi'mnotsureshecoversthisuhitdidgetlostuhintheindianoceanbutiassumeyouagreewithbanisterkeyyeahitgotlostonre-entryanduhitdidre-enter
Speaker 1
which is the largest object to ever reenter the Earth's atmosphere. So reentry was not a non-trivial operation, as was getting into orbit a non-trivial operation. And it succeeded at both. And then sometime between reentry and landing, they didn't have control over it anymore.
Words and timings
whichisthelargestobjecttoeverreentertheEarth'satmosphere.Soreentrywasnotanon-trivialoperation,aswasgettingintoorbitanon-trivialoperation.Anditsucceededatboth.Andthensometimebetweenreentryandlanding,theydidn'thavecontroloveritanymore.
Speaker 4
Probably the Chinese took it over.
Words and timings
ProbablytheChinesetookitover.
Speaker 1
But it does mean that, you know, he is... He learns, he does these experiments to learn, and this is the third of these.
Words and timings
Butitdoesmeanthat,youknow,heis...Helearns,hedoestheseexperimentstolearn,andthisisthethirdofthese.
Speaker 4
He doesn't do them just for himself, does he?
Words and timings
Hedoesn'tdothemjustforhimself,doeshe?
Speaker 1
No, but the prior two had worse problems earlier. And so he's basically pushing the envelope by, you know, accepting mistakes, learning from them, and then let's make a different later mistake. My guess is the next time he does it, it will reenter and it won't be lost. And then you have a huge starship that's capable of taking very large payloads a very long distance, which is a massive breakthrough.
Words and timings
No,butthepriortwohadworseproblemsearlier.Andsohe'sbasicallypushingtheenvelopeby,youknow,acceptingmistakes,learningfromthem,andthenlet'smakeadifferentlatermistake.Myguessisthenexttimehedoesit,itwillreenteranditwon'tbelost.Andthenyouhaveahugestarshipthat'scapableoftakingverylargepayloadsaverylongdistance,whichisamassivebreakthrough.
Speaker 4
He doesn't. I mean, I take a point, but he doesn't do a lot to help his own reputation. You can say that. I mean, he clearly doesn't care or he goes out of his way to be disliked.
Words and timings
Hedoesn't.Imean,Itakeapoint,buthedoesn'tdoalottohelphisownreputation.Youcansaythat.Imean,heclearlydoesn'tcareorhegoesoutofhiswaytobedisliked.
Speaker 1
You know, I thought a lot of people cheered him on this week when he decided not to partner with Don Lemon.
Words and timings
Youknow,IthoughtalotofpeoplecheeredhimonthisweekwhenhedecidednottopartnerwithDonLemon.
Speaker 4
Um, you would think, yeah, what, what did you make of that? I don't know why I did it in the first place.
Words and timings
Um,youwouldthink,yeah,what,whatdidyoumakeofthat?Idon'tknowwhyIdiditinthefirstplace.
Speaker 1
Yeah. It's hard to tell. I think we have to wait until we see the interview, but Don Lemon is self-obsessed kind of narcissist. And, um, well, it's, and so is Elon.
Words and timings
Yeah.It'shardtotell.Ithinkwehavetowaituntilweseetheinterview,butDonLemonisself-obsessedkindofnarcissist.And,um,well,it's,andsoisElon.
Speaker 4
So I would think biggest, I don't know anything about lemon.
Words and timings
SoIwouldthinkbiggest,Idon'tknowanythingaboutlemon.
Speaker 1
Yeah. Well, I think he's a bit full of himself. Let's put it that way. Um, that neither one of them are particularly humble. And so it was never going to work. And sure enough, it didn't. But Elon has the purse strings when it comes to X. So his show was canceled. A bit like Apple canceling Jon Stewart, which I have actually more concern about that because they didn't like what he was saying.
Words and timings
Yeah.Well,Ithinkhe'sabitfullofhimself.Let'sputitthatway.Um,thatneitheroneofthemareparticularlyhumble.Andsoitwasnevergoingtowork.Andsureenough,itdidn't.ButElonhasthepursestringswhenitcomestoX.Sohisshowwascanceled.AbitlikeApplecancelingJonStewart,whichIhaveactuallymoreconcernaboutthatbecausetheydidn'tlikewhathewassaying.
Speaker 4
And should we, I mean, I'm not suggesting that Bannister was doing this to get more followers on X, which is owned by Musk, but should we be concerned in a week, Keith, where we're worried about the supposed totalitarian Chinese government, should we be concerned that this sort of thing, these sorts of statements, this hero worship is being articulated on the very platform that Musk owns and uses to peddle his own
Words and timings
Andshouldwe,Imean,I'mnotsuggestingthatBannisterwasdoingthistogetmorefollowersonX,whichisownedbyMusk,butshouldwebeconcernedinaweek,Keith,wherewe'reworriedaboutthesupposedtotalitarianChinesegovernment,shouldwebeconcernedthatthissortofthing,thesesortsofstatements,thisheroworshipisbeingarticulatedontheveryplatformthatMuskownsandusestopeddlehisown
Speaker 1
statues or at least try to encourage people to build statues for himself you know dennis pombriant who's on the gilmore gang his quote was sideshow and i think i think that's probably just about right because in the real world um leading up to november there are real issues about the future of our lives and those probably should be center stage not not the personalities i'm not a big I hate watching these TV shows that reiterate Trump's history over and over again as if that is enough to defeat him. But on actual issues, it feels as if we should be talking about those. And I think Trump overall gets a 9 out of 10 for improving humanity and a 1 out of 10 for... Trump or Musk? Sorry, Musk, I mean.
Words and timings
statuesoratleasttrytoencouragepeopletobuildstatuesforhimselfyouknowdennispombriantwho'sonthegilmoreganghisquotewassideshowandithinkithinkthat'sprobablyjustaboutrightbecauseintherealworldumleadinguptonovembertherearerealissuesaboutthefutureofourlivesandthoseprobablyshouldbecenterstagenotnotthepersonalitiesi'mnotabigIhatewatchingtheseTVshowsthatreiterateTrump'shistoryoverandoveragainasifthatisenoughtodefeathim.Butonactualissues,itfeelsasifweshouldbetalkingaboutthose.AndIthinkTrumpoverallgetsa9outof10forimprovinghumanityanda1outof10for...TrumporMusk?Sorry,Musk,Imean.
Speaker 4
Whoops, that was... You gave yourself away there, Keith.
Words and timings
Whoops,thatwas...Yougaveyourselfawaythere,Keith.
Speaker 1
Easy to confuse the two.
Words and timings
Easytoconfusethetwo.
Speaker 4
You're going to get thrown off the Gilmore Gang when you're giving Donald Trump 9 out of 10.
Words and timings
You'regoingtogetthrownofftheGilmoreGangwhenyou'regivingDonaldTrump9outof10.
Speaker 1
Yeah, so I think Musk gets a 9 out of 10, but he gets a 1 out of 10 for marketing. And some of his opinions recently, I strongly disagree with. He's become massively anti-immigrant, almost going along with the immigrants are criminals meme.
Words and timings
Yeah,soIthinkMuskgetsa9outof10,buthegetsa1outof10formarketing.Andsomeofhisopinionsrecently,Istronglydisagreewith.He'sbecomemassivelyanti-immigrant,almostgoingalongwiththeimmigrantsarecriminalsmeme.
Speaker 4
As an immigrant, there's certainly an irony there.
Words and timings
Asanimmigrant,there'scertainlyanironythere.
Speaker 1
So, you know, you can't really say you're in Musk's camp because he says things you... So no statues for the moment for Elon Musk, you're saying? Maybe a statue of Musk shaped as a starship could be okay, or a car. Hello.
Words and timings
So,youknow,youcan'treallysayyou'reinMusk'scampbecausehesaysthingsyou...SonostatuesforthemomentforElonMusk,you'resaying?MaybeastatueofMuskshapedasastarshipcouldbeokay,oracar.Hello.
Speaker 3
On a cloudy day When it's cold outside I've got the money Everybody say I guess you say What can make me feel this way? It's minor love I'm talking about
Words and timings
OnacloudydayWhenit'scoldoutsideI'vegotthemoneyEverybodysayIguessyousayWhatcanmakemefeelthisway?It'sminorloveI'mtalkingabout